Pass the popcorn! Here we go with the scare tactics again!

[Newport Viper]

I love the passion people put into this!

Log in and join the fun!

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=549188&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=&vc=1&PHPSESSID=

[Mike Phillips]

There's a member in that thread that brings up the old silicone is bad for paint lie, here's something I posted to similar thread...

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When people spread rumors that silicone is harmful to automotive paint, they simply don't know what they're talking about or they have a hidden agenda.

It's true that silicone (and other products), can create surface tension and if not removed before painting fresh paint onto a car they will cause fish eyes, but any body shop worth their weight in beans knows that before paint a car you must first do the proper prep work to the finish which includes cleaning it from anything that would interfere with paint adhesion. People that make the statement that silicone is harmful to paint must not understand this, or have never had a car painted before.

Silicone is inert, it can't hurt anything. If someone is concerned about silicone in a product, then they should be concerned about any product, or polish that makes water bead up. This would include Zaino.

If the product makes water bead up, you can bet it will cause fresh paint to bead up, (if sprayed onto an unprepared finish), which will show up as fish eyes. (A fish eye is where the paint does not adhere because another ingredient on the surface is creating surface tension and will not allow the paint to coat over that area and instead will force it to pile up around the area causing what is referred to as a fish eye. This is more or less the same thing that happens, (only in reverse), when you see water bead up because of the ingredient used in the wax or polish formula creates surface tension on your car's paint.

Here's a simple experiment, apply some wax of your choice to a painted finish, and then spray some spray paint over it and watch what happens. If you see fish eyes, then what ever is in that formula would not be safe on paint, or in a fresh paint environment, if you plan on re-painting the car.

If fish eyes appear, then regardless of what's in the wax formula, the ingredients are causing the same problem some silicones could cause if the painter didn't properly prepare the finish before painting. This is the actually the entire misconception people have about silicone being harmful to paint. Silicone is inert, it doesn't harm anything. It does create surface tension and if it isn't removed from the surface before painting it will cause fish eyes, so will any ingredient that causes surface tension, and any true painter know this.

So all the folks that like products like Zaino because it beads water, or M16 Professional Paste Wax because it beads water, if they are going to have their car repainted, before the paint is sprayed on, they will need first properly prepare the surface to insure all traces of any substance that causes surface tension is removed. Again, any truly knowledgeable painter would understand this.

That's why the entire topic of silicone in a product is overblown and misunderstood. In today's age, any body shop or customer painter is aware that each and every car that comes into their shop has likely been around products that contain ingredients that cause surface tension, or had products that increase surface tension applied to them, this could be vinyl dressing sprayed onto a vinyl top, and the overspray drifting onto the paint. It could be the paint on a car such as this example was never waxed with anything, but the silicone found in another non-paint related product became airborne and landed on the finish thus creating the potential for a refinishing problem.

That's why any body shop or any painter worth a weight in beans understands that, because they don't know every exact detail about each and every car they work on, they need take the necessary precautions to prep the finish as though their could be a problem to insure there won't be a problem.

Meguiar's takes the high road, instead of scaring people into thinking silicones are bad or harmful, we try to educate people with common sense and the reality that if our chemists use any ingredient in any of our products, it for either the benefit of the user, or the surface the product is being applied to, otherwise our chemist wouldn't use the ingredient. Pure and simple.

By the way, some people reading this may not know it, but Meguiar's roots and history is in making products without silicone, this includes our very first products, furniture cleaners and polishes as Frank Meguiar Jr. was very adamant about not creating any re-finishing problems for the furniture industry.

When Meguiar's branched into the automotive industry in the 1920's, they carried this same philosophy into manufacturing automotive products, and that was, and to this day, is to create formulas that are body shop safe. That is they contain no ingredients that will create surface adhesion problems, i.e. wax and silicone. This is one of the reasons Meguiar's didn't come out with an automotive wax until after Frank Meguiar Jr. passed away in 1950. Think about it, M16 Professional Paste Wax, our first wax came out in 1951.

That said, for products that are not intended to be used on fresh paint, or formulated to be used in a fresh paint environment, our chemist use ingredients that help the product to perform at the highest level, otherwise they wouldn't include the ingredient. 100 years of being in this business substantiates this claim.

100 years of expertise in manufacturing products for use in the re-finishing industry and most of those years working with auto manufactures and paint manufactures, is about 100 years more experience than most of the products you see talked about on discussion forums.

There is no wax war, everyone is free to choose the product that works best for them and looks the best in their own eyes. When it comes to making that decision, sometimes you just have to decide who's name your going to give your trust.

To post on a public forum that silicone is detrimental to automotive paint is just plain ignorant at best and deceitful at worst.

[Scottwax]

I just think it is sad that some people try to build up their product by tearing other product lines down by continuing to pass along wrong information.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Scottwax
I just think it is sad that some people try to build up their product by tearing other product lines down by continuing to pass along wrong information.

Excellent point.

Something I find interesting is how posts like the one Newport Viper included and similar posts throughout the discussion forum world is usually sprinkled with a few known players. These people are transparent enough that the locals on the forum get to know them and in time simply dismiss them as irrelevant.

[Aurora40]

Viper owners...





I think you will find this in most forums with a lot of people. I'm not really sure what fuels it. So someone else likes a different wax... Unless you are selling wax, so what?

Maybe I should sign up and post about how Zaino lasted about two weeks on the 200SX. And about how 1Z Glanz has never lasted more than one wash for me. Or about how Zaino Z2 did a better job cleaning my kitchen counter than Protect-All's Shine Plus. Any product has it's plusses and minuses. And that's why different people will like different ones.

[romulus]

After reading Mike's long response, I am amazed how many people falls into misconception or worse...wrong information that was put out on purpose to discredit someone without any proof.

On the side note, I was not aware that #16 was made back in the 50's. I thought that was somewhere in the 70's. Maybe Mike can put a timeline (with pictures would be nice) of when the products were introduced and discontinue (with some brief explanation). So with that timeline, I believe that it will help people see that Meguiar's products are tested through times like #7. And that no one can argue. Yes, when Mike says that Meguiar’s has been around for a bit more than 100 years, that is nice to know; but I bet when people see that a product was introduced in the 30’s or 40’s and still be able to find it. They will be blown away.
I guess that will take some time and further research to pin point more or less the year. Also it would be nice to separate products category for automotive, marine, furniture and mold release.
What do you think? Good or bad idea?