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**Abel2325** · May 26, 2005, 03:10 PM

They should have seeked your permission prior to using the photo and they should compensate you.

**Beercan31** · May 26, 2005, 03:53 PM

Re: Your opinion please n this matter.

They should have at least put your name in the photo/editors credits
example:
photo taken by Superior Shine.

Superior Shine: I never gave permission to anyone to use my pictures in any way after that story.[/B]

one other point of interest is you have given them permission to use the photo in a article they did, and will keep doing so. I'm not sure what you could do at this point or what the stipulations were when you gave them permission to use the photo in the first place. if you did not state in writing that photo can not be used after that point it is pretty much there's to use as they wish. Be thankful the photo was not used in bad taste or in a negative way, you just feel jilted because you know how much you put in to that job and not get the recognition for it or the photo.

I remember the original thread you did on the Bmw 745il Make-over....man it still looks like you just did it....lol just trying to be funny.

**2000** · May 27, 2005, 04:35 AM

I agree with beercan 31, if you tell them once they can use it, they basicly own the photo to use how ever they want unless you had it stated other wise in the original contract. however if someone else is claiming that it was their work, that could be a different story. heck if they're going to use it I'd at least ask not to white out the van so you can get some advertising out of it.

**Mike Phillips** · May 27, 2005, 05:14 AM

My initial thoughts are,

If Carwashing & Detailing magazine truly wanted to give their readers a good article, they would have included your complete write-up with all your pictures and given you the credit you were due.

Your write-up and your pictures

Bmw 745il Make-over

Is one of the best I've ever seen on any auto detailing website, although some have many more members and have been around for much longer than Meguiar's Online. Kind of a testimony to the quality of information that can be found on this forum.

For example the way you used wet sanding to not only remove the defects and you documented the process, but you also used wet-sanding to highlight the defects themselves so that the camera could better capture the defects so that your readers could see and better understand the defect and the repair process.

The damage had to be color-sanded out.

This first pic is of the etching after I sanded the finish lightly so I could get a contrast from the depth of the etching and the sanding marks.

Here is the hood with all the etching sanded out. I used Meguiar's 2000 grit paper and wet it with a spray water bottle with a dash of Meguiar's car wash soap.

**RDVT4ME** · May 27, 2005, 06:49 AM

Wow Joe! Nice work!!!!!

I will soon be starting a new schedule at work that will allow me to be off every other Friday.

Joe- I would love to be able to ride with you for the day and learn from the best. Let me know if this is possible.

**Mike Phillips** · May 27, 2005, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Superior Shine
In the June 2005 issue of Carwashing & detailing magazine Mr. Abraham wrote an article, "How to generate more revenue".

Mr Abraham could actually get two articles out of your write-up, one on how to generate more revenue, and a second one,

Professional tools and techniques to properly remove below surface defects and restore a true show car shine.

I wonder where that article is?

You know it's guys like Joe that actually do the dirty work, day-in and day-out, that keep companies like Meguiar's and Carwashing & Detailing magazine in business.

Thank you Joe! You know we appreciate your hard work and your patronage, not to mention your dedication to the craft. We also insure you get the credit you are due when you post your write-ups here on our forum.

Plus, how many young men and women have you personally taught how to professionally detail over the years? Some of whom have probably gone on to use the skills you've given them to start their own business?

"Each one teach one"

**Mike Phillips** · May 27, 2005, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by RDVT4ME
Wow Joe! Nice work!!!!!

I will soon be starting a new schedule at work that will allow me to be off every other Friday.

Joe- I would love to be able to ride with you for the day and learn from the best. Let me know if this is possible.

As the saying goes...

"You're never to old to learn"

Even Joe, as much as he knows and as much experience as he has gained, has attended both of our NXT ti Institute Classes. He's also attended many of our Saturday Detailing Classes here at Meguiar's.

In the detailing industry, change is always taking place, a person with a healthy attitude will always be looking for opportunity to learn about new techniques and new products. Even I would like to ride and work with Joe for a couple of days, I know I could learn a lot.

**Aurora40** · May 27, 2005, 07:45 AM

I don't think you are being a cry baby. Especially as they wiped out the name on your van!! Not only did they steal your creative property, but they altered it without your permission. You ought to at the least write them a letter and ask them for an explanation.

**MandarinaRacing** · May 27, 2005, 01:07 PM

The business name on the side of my van has been whited out.

Did you e-mailed them and ask why they did this?????

Also in the future it be a good idea to include some sort of signature in your pics, is one thing that we share pics among us, but it's a different story when it's affecting your source of income...

just my opinion!

Alex

BTW that's an excellent job you did on that bimmer, do you need an apprentice?!?!?

**Superior Shine** · May 27, 2005, 02:49 PM

RDVT4ME -any time. Just email or call.

Mike, super kind of you to post those compliments. You as a detailer and one that ran a pro. detail business know exactly what we have to deal with day in and day out. Again thanks for the kind comments.

To all that posted, thanks.

I don't think I will do anything about it. I posted this question on another forum that Mr. Abrams frequents and I wouldn't be surprised if my feelings made its way back to the magazine.

Actually it is kind of flattering that the car was nice enough for them to want to put it in the magazine.

SHINE ON!!!!!!!!!

**rusty bumper** · May 27, 2005, 06:08 PM

I would be upset myself too.

Looks like they could have given you your due respect Joe.

**scrub** · May 28, 2005, 07:06 PM

I'm looking at the article right now. No props for you at all. His choice of picture doesn't fit the article at all. Don't get me wrong it's a great picture and write up, but it doesn't fit the theme. Why would he "borrow" that image?

This raises a few issues

First
Was the photo in the article borrowed from this forum or possibly from one of the many other forums you belong to?

If you posted the same photos and writeup in his forum then I guess he could borrow the image.

If you're sure he got the image only from this forum, here are my thoughts.

Are there vendors or the like out there who are taking the photos from this forum's gallery for growing their business?

Who owns the photos when the photos are posted to an online forum?

I haven't checked but I'd figure that MOL is the owner of the digital image on their forum to further their business not vendors who need quick snapshots of great work to jazz up their articles or advertisements. I think MOL wouldn't care about the images on their forum, but Meguiar's is an interested party regarding the stored images. Meguiar's has a financial benefit from the images. No problem with that. But does MOL want to share the benefits with others who don't sponsor this forum. If this were just a detailing forum without retail ties then I think the images would just be in cyber space for all to use.

For example when a video is sent to America's funniest home videos, that video now becomes the property of AFHV.

Is that the position of MOL regarding images?

I could care less who owns the images I post on MOL. If MOL wants them and can use them (which they do) to sell products that's cool cause that's why I'm here. But to have a forum member from a rival company come in and "borrow" images from his competition. Hmmm! If that is how he got that image.

Lastly before you post a image would adding a watermark from photoshop help prevent this. Perhaps if MOL was interested in preventing this in the future, you could program that into the uploading software to add the watermark when images are uploaded.

I'd like to see the MOL position on image ownership.

Sorry for the senseless rambling. This was my attempt to give back a little to someone who is inspiring and helpful with his knowledge of this craft. I used the mini microscope and light today. See what I mean. How many members went out and bought the stuff you recommended in the More than a buffer or DA thread. I know I did. Thanks. Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut!

**Scottwax** · Jun 6, 2005, 06:49 PM

I think I'd be upset too, in fact, I know I'd be upset. Pictures of my customers cars have ended up on other websites and others have taken credit for my work.

At the very least, even if they had used that picture in the past, you should have been contacted prior to them using it again, simply as a courtesy.

BTW, have you noticed for the most part the detailing information they have is very basic?

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