Area 805 top secret testing begins!

[Jason Rose]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

i think this is relevant to the thread title.... hmmmmm, yesssss....

THAT! That is funny. LOL.

But concerned about the relevance you speak of here. Are you mocking Kevin? Or me? Am I the alien that people are referring to in this thread?

[Jason Rose]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Stay tuned... This is going to be good.

Hey, auh....excuse me...but Area 805 is...em...a Top Secret testing facility. Why are we talking about it?

If you tell ANYONE that I was there, I may have to deny my involvement.

[pilotbear]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

THAT! That is funny. LOL.

But concerned about the relevance you speak of here. Are you mocking Kevin? Or me? Am I the alien that people are referring to in this thread?

the relevance is... irrelevant. i'm always mocking you, aren't i?

i love guessing games.

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

A LOT of assumption on this thread.

It seems as though most MOL members believe this to be a thread about the G110v2 Dual Action Polisher.

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.

Regardless, I HAVE had ample time behind the controls of the G110v2, so I shall give some insight into this machine.
By now you may have seen Superior Shine's most excellent review of this machine.
Joe is a master of ALL machines, so if you have not seen his review, check it out and the corresponding videos here:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38972

My review begins... next! Lots of words, no pics, so look at Joe's to SEE the good stuff.

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

CIRCUITRY. CONTROL. COMFORT.

The Meguiar's G110v2 Dual-Action Polisher is going to surprise a LOT of people.

I did my best to write this mini-review in a manner that would not discount the merits of all the other random orbital polishers I've used. But I couldn't.
I haven't used them all of course, but I have used quite a few. So, here goes:

The v2 SMOKES all of them.
Let me clarify that statement, because it is a bold one.

I don't mean smoke, as in:
A cute, little, cloud-shaped, whitish puff of floating fuzzball type of smoke.
Not that kind. Not at all.

I mean SMOKE, as in:
A BELCHING, DARK AS DEATH, EVIL IN SHAPE, BREATHE IT IN THEN PASS OUT BECAUSE IT'S A NITROMETHANE INSTILLED FURIOUS STORM CLOUD type of smoke.

In fact, the G110v2 can equal or surpass the polishing performance of some pretty prominent forced rotation machines.
Does that paint a better picture for you?

In terms of PAD ROTATION, there may be some machines that can outrun the G110v2 on the top end. I own one that did just that. However, top end rotational speed is not the only thing requiring consideration when gauging the performance of a polishing machine. After all, it is RESULTS that count. Anyone that has used various buffing liquids and pads with a random orbital knows that the pad/buffing liquid combination definitely has an effect on backing plate rotation. In fact, some liquids deliver best results regardless the amount of rotation (as long as there is at least some rotation).

The amount of orbits per minute a machine can deliver is not to be overlooked, either. If this all sounds a bit daunting, don't worry. Although there are oodles of factors that change the optimum oscillation/rotation combination, most times it is best to just put the machine to paint, and get to the task of polishing.

It seems apparent that the R&D team spent a lot of time behind the controls of the first generation G110, and implemented some very useful changes.

PHYSICAL CHANGES
The appearance of this machine is very similar to its predecessor, but there are some changes.
At first glance, you'll likely notice that the yellow shroud covering the rotating assembly is smaller. This is good, especially if you are planning on using smaller pads and backing plates. The smaller cover allows the machine to fit in areas that the original G110 could not, and if a small backing plate is to be employed, the shroud will keep wandering fingertips from entering the dreaded "spin zone" (the area where the counterbalance rotates). Next, you may notice that the motor brushes are accessible from the outside of the machine. Smart! It kind of relays the fact that this machine is made to last a long while. By the way- an extra set of brushes is included with the machine.

CIRCUITRY
The Meguiar's G110v2 features an ingenious feedback circuit that is responsible for delivering improved random rotation.
This is especially true when the machine is put under an increased load due to panel shape, increased friction, or user applied downward pressure. The first time this feature kicks in, you may think to yourself, "Did something just happen, here?"
Yes, it did. When the feedback circuit applies its magic, you may notice a brief moment of transition, then a gradual restoration of the rotation. It is not a limitless delivery system, so if you apply heavy pressure to the head of the machine and are anticipating a magical resurgence of pad rotation, you may be disappointed. It is likely that most people won't ever notice the circuitry do its job. What will be apparent is how much better your pads and polish are working, and how much better YOU have become as a paint polisher!

COMFORT
The Meguiar's G110v2 is comfortable to use.
After all, it IS a random orbital. Some users of this type of machine are susceptible to hand or arm irritation due to the repetitive oscillating motion it creates (especially when used with the higher speed settings). A majority of the negative aspects of this type of motion can be dealt with by adjusting hand placement and grip, fine tuning pad type and size, and dialing in the lowest orbit speed that still allows for satisfactory defect removal. Unfortunately, lower orbit speeds tend to diminish the ability of the machine to create centripetal force (the physics element that causes the random orbital's backing plate to rotate), so higher orbit speeds are often used in order to generate more pad rotation. With the G110v2, the feedback circuit works so well to curtail this inherent trait that the orbit speed can be dropped while still delivering impressive polishing results. This is a BIG DEAL in terms of improving COMFORT.

Most users find that a random orbital is easier to control than a forced rotational orbital. This is especially true when the attached buffing pad travels across a curved panel and must contour to the shape. Things get even sketchier with the forced rotation machine if the side of the buffing pad meets an aggressively contoured surface (and flat hoods are sooo OUT these days) because the lateral in and out motion of the pad shakes the machine in defiance. Pad choice (size, material, and density) can minimize or optimize this occurrence. A small stroke machine does not react as defiantly as its larger stroke counterpart, so in these situations a random orbital featuring a small stroke feels more refined and seems easier to control.

Although this machine features the original G110's 5/16" stroke, it feels solid and a bit quieter than the original (there is NO doubt that the G110v2 is substantially quieter than the Porter Cable 7424XP). After all, if the noise level is uncomfortable and you prefer not to use ear protection, using the machine is not enjoyable over the long haul. Ease of control increases comfort, allowing a person to use the machine for longer periods of time. The G110v2 features a bail-style handle, which many users like. I prefer to use the machine WITHOUT a handle, as machine motions (lateral movement, wiggling, or bouncing) seems to be less pronounced. Hey- it's a pivot point versus distance to your hand physics-based thing.

Perhaps you are wondering, "If the stroke size remains the same, and the G110v2 is very similar to the original physically and ergonomically, how did the team at Meguiar's deliver more comfort?" They did it by giving you better CONTROL. You've just read about the feedback circuitry. Now let's move on!

CONTROL
The Meguiar's G110v2 features a very precise speed control dial.
What a concept! If there is one thing I have learned over the years, it is that the mechanism responsible for controlling orbit speed is a dial for a reason. Why is it then that so many random orbitals feature a speed dial that seems as though it was pulled from a bargain bin? Many of the machines I have owned monitor speed satisfactorily at the lower settings, but in the upper ranges their is virtually no progression. Not so with the G110v2. It is very accurate, from speed one to speed six. This sounds like a small detail, but inaccurate dials are a REAL drag.

With the advent of high tech abrasives and improved pad technology, the random orbital is rapidly gaining acceptance as a viable alternative to the rotary buffer. Whether the task at hand is heavy defect removal or ultra fine polishing, many paint polishing enthusiasts are realizing the potential of the random orbital. The primary concern seems to be the amount of pad rotation, and how it rapidly diminishes as pressure or friction is increased. With the Meguiar's G110v2, a huge leap in terms of random orbital performance has been made.

CONCLUSION
If you count yourself as a huge fan of the forced rotation orbital, you may not be entirely swayed to try this machine.
That is, unless you like the power that a forced rotation machine delivers, but you HATE the way it steers the machine when a curved or complex panel is encountered.
If this caveat describes you to a "T"...

Then the G110v2 may be the machine for YOU.

Many forced rotation orbitals do not allow the user to alter the backing plate pad diameter because the shroud size is too big, or the backing plate uses an odd bolt pattern.
Even worse, some backing plates are an integral part of the machine. Because of these shortcomings, the use of various pad diameters are limited, by design. Not so with the G110v2.

If you already use a random orbital and enjoy the results you can achieve, then keep on using your machine.
BUT!- If you are ready to upgrade or add another machine to your arsenal...

Then the G110v2 may be the machine for YOU, too.

[Justin Murphy]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Wow. That says a lot coming from you sir.

Now what to do with my G110 V1??? Trade ins allowed???

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Awesome, awesome review, Kevin!! Just outstanding, thank you for such a concise and to the point write up.

Now, as for the original topic of this thread.......... uh, where were we? Oh yeah...... you guys must be REALLY curious about the actual topic of discussion now, eh?

[Superior Shine]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Kevin your review of the G110 v2 is the review mine wants to be when it grows up! Nice job!

[Mikejl]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Thank you for another great review Kevin!

I ordered my G110 V2 Friday from ADS. You removed the few lingering doubts I had that maybe I should have opted for the Flex instead.



Mike

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Thanks for the great review, Kevin. Awesome breakdown.

[ZoranC]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

CIRCUITRY
The Meguiar's G110v2 features an ingenious feedback circuit that is responsible for delivering improved random rotation.
This is especially true when the machine is put under an increased load due to panel shape ...

Could you please elaborate what kind of panel shape would result in increased load on machine and need for restoring of power? Thank you!

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Could you please elaborate what kind of panel shape would result in increased load on machine and need for restoring of power? Thank you!

Well, you got me there.
The panel is not active, therefore it does not bog the machine on its own... nor does user applied pressure, nor surface friction for that matter.

So, my best attempt to answer your question directly would be:

A panel that might result in an increased load on the machine (henceforth referred to as the difficult panel) could be one that would cause the buffing pad to receive an inordinate amount of evenly or unevenly distributed pressure upon any part of the pad due to the difficult panel's shape. This assumes that there would be NO adjustment of applied pressure by the machine's operator. This also assumes that the machine would be allowed to cruise atop a neutral panel (a neutral panel is one that neither adds nor subtracts to the machine's perceived "load") for at least a brief stint prior to intersecting the aforementioned difficult panel.

All of this assumes that the user or any other entity DOES NOT cause a pressure change, a friction change, or any other unforseen drag-related circumstance to occur during the polishing of the difficult panel.

My simplest attempt to answer your question would be:

[I]A panel that might result in an increased load on the machine would be one similar to the fender on this truck:



Hope this helps. Excuse me while I grab some Advil.

[yalerd]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Nice job on the review Kevin, thanks

[ZoranC]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

My simplest attempt to answer your question would be:

[I]A panel that might result in an increased load on the machine would be one similar to the fender on this truck:

Thank you! This part does answer my question.

On shapes like this one wouldn't feedback circuitry deciding to increase power as you are getting into it actually be something what one does not want?

In other words, would feedback circuitry deciding to increase power as pad is getting into tight areas mean higher chance for coming in too aggressive?

Whenever I have watched experienced detailers working I have seen them slow down their tools as they were getting into such areas, not speed up.

So to me two sound conflicting and exclusive of each other.

What I might be missing that makes not slowing down on such areas fine?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Area 805 top secret testing begins!

Thank you! This part does answer my question.

On shapes like this one wouldn't feedback circuitry deciding to increase power as you are getting into it actually be something what one does not want?

In other words, would feedback circuitry deciding to increase power as pad is getting into tight areas mean higher chance for coming in too aggressive?

Whenever I have watched experienced detailers working I have seen them slow down their tools as they were getting into such areas, not speed up.

So to me two sound conflicting and exclusive of each other.

What I might be missing that makes not slowing down on such areas fine?

While it's true that one doesn't want to approach these areas too aggressively, you also don't want the tool to completely bog down - you still need/want rotation of the pad. On a neutral panel (to stay with the same terminology), if you tilt a D/A onto the edge of the pad it will bog down, which is not a good thing. But on a difficult panel the shape itself will effectively put the pad on edge, or a reasonable equivalent thereof. Still, not a good thing. If, in anticipation of working on this difficult panel, you slow down the machine - which may be the prudent thing to do, as you mentioned - then the tool has an even higher chance of bogging. Here the feedback circuitry will kick in and maintain the desired speed, or at least close to it.

It must be understood that the feedback circuitry (ie Cruise Control) will not always compensate 100% for excess pressure - you can still bog the machine if you really lean on it. Otherwise the safety factor of the tool would be all but lost.