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  • Very disturbing news

    I've learned in the past few days that the detailing industry is being attacked in various parts of our nation.

    Georgia, for example, where the Car Wash industry (could include the local asssoc for the southeast US, I don't know for a fact - SECWA http://www.secwa.org) has been trying to get the legislature to pass a proposal (new law?) to ban home car washing and mobile detailers. I wrote to this assoc. (only two days ago) to see what their position is or if they will deny or play dumb about it. Also, an "inside source" told me that local government now requires a permit to fill pools. They actually banned filling pools for awhile due to the drought, but the public came out in droves, the governor caved and they got their pool water back, for a price. Will they care that their car's will be destroyed by auto car washes and their only options might be to live with it, have them repainted when the paint looks like dung, or buy a new car more often? Could be good for painters and the auto industry.

    On a related note: Bayes Cleaners (endorsed by ABC, About.com, QVC and "Living With Ed" "star" Mr. Ed Begley) is promoting a waterless spray car wash (Bayes Waterless Car Wash) that contains polymers (competition for Optimum No Rinse).

    That's ok with me, but on their main page and "more info" page about this product they state:

    "Washing your car at home requires up to 150 gallons of water per wash, while contaminated water flows down gutters and storm drains to pollute rivers, lakes, and oceans."

    Can this exaggeration possibly be a scare tactic?

    "For vehicles cleaned with this car care product on a regular basis, we can't say there's any better alternative. It cleans, shines, and protects any vehicle that is regularly washed and cared for. However, if your car is heavily soiled, hasn't been washed in weeks, or has just made a long trip, we'd opt for the automated car wash first."

    Ouch! That hits home with me.

    Pros
    Environmentally safe, non-toxic formula
    Made in U.S.A.
    Conserves large amounts of water - up to 150 gallons compared to washing at home
    Restores vehicle shine
    Inexpensive

    Cons
    Evaporates quickly in hot, dry climates
    Not completely effective on very soiled vehicles


    Regardless of intentions, I see this marketing strategy and their claims to be a detriment to the detailing industry. I wrote and told them so. I think I'll write to Mr. Begley and ask if he uses it, goes to the local auto car wash, or has his vehicle(s) professionally detailed. hmmm A few other emails to ABC, About.com and QVC may be in order as well.

    Needless to say, I won't be buying any of their products or products promoted by these companies. That's about all I can do as a disgruntled consumer.

    I'm wondering (and plan to ask by email) what action the NAPDR http://www.detailersassociation.com/ and IDA http://www.the-ida.com/ are doing about these issues?

    Is anyone here concerned about these issues? I hear California may be looking at the same fate regarding washing, detailing and other water related businesses and activities.

    Wasn't it John Lennon who sang "freedom is just a bunch of people talking"? That doesn't sit well with me either.

  • #2
    Re: Very disturbing news

    If they are using 150 gallons of water to wash a car, they are doing it wrong.
    AeroCleanse, LLC
    Wisconsin's Elite Detailing Service
    www.aerocleanse.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Very disturbing news

      Good topic, but lets all please remember to keep this a friendly thread regarding the issues discussed....

      We don't want this to turn into a political banter



      Thanks in advance....

      Mike
      Mike Pennington
      Director of Global Training, Events and Consumer Relations
      Meguiar's, Inc.
      800-854-8073
      mpennington@meguiars.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Very disturbing news

        Mike, how much water do you think is used when you wash a car? You must wash a lot of them, wondered if you had an idea.

        I would think its a lot less than 150 gallons.
        AeroCleanse, LLC
        Wisconsin's Elite Detailing Service
        www.aerocleanse.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Very disturbing news

          Here's an exerpt from a Florida website:

          Commercial car washes use up to 100 less gallons of water to wash a car. They often recycle and reuse rinse water. If everyone who washed their own car chose to go to a professional car wash just once, up to 8.7 billion gallons of water could be saved and some 12 billion gallons of soapy, dirty water could be diverted from possibly entering rivers, lakes and streams.

          Another from the dailygreen.com:

          Commercial car washes require an average of about 45 gallons of water per car, whereas home washers typically use between 80 and 140 gallons, according to the trade group International Carwash Association. That's a big difference! Federal law requires commercial car washes to drain their wastewater into sewers, where it normally receives some treatment, versus simply running across the land.

          I thought the point was to NOT let wastewater run into sewers?

          Seems the car wash industry is getting a lot of free advertising these days, but to me using 45 gallons is not a positive.

          Are there any public, government or eco-green sites promoting how much water can be save by having a professional mobile detailer wash your car? Jeez Maybe this stuff is only "news" to me?
          Last edited by 10degreesbtdc; Jun 27, 2009, 10:56 AM. Reason: addition

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Very disturbing news

            I actually posted a thread on Bayes Waterless Car Wash yesterday, don't know if you saw it.

            First, any law to ban mobile detailing would be a judicial nightmare to enact. I would imagine that it's unconstitutional by most state charters (and probably the feds too) to restrict free enterprise and damage or restrict the livelihood of private business. Most state legislators would be afraid to touch this, let alone champion it.

            2nd, the 150 gallons per wash claim might be aptly applied to an average car owner who has no compunction to conserve water and heavily floods his or her vehicle unnecessarily. And the 150 gallons is likely an exaggeration used by Bayes to market their product. Using a nozzle with a stop trigger handle, I estimate that I use no more water washing my car than I would use taking a ten minute shower (maybe less). I pulse the water to wet the car down, and again to rinse so I measure myself as I wash my car. And while I can't quantify my numbers, I can see my runoff in the gutter and it almost never extends more than 2 or 3 car lengths down the street. I'm sure professional detailers can or could find a way to accurately measure every ounce they use.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Very disturbing news

              That's a shame. You need to talk to them

              That's how the new Mr.Clean Car washes are getting such praise because their drainage systems filter and reuse the water for the next car.
              Matt

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Very disturbing news

                Originally posted by AeroCleanse View Post
                Mike, how much water do you think is used when you wash a car? You must wash a lot of them, wondered if you had an idea.

                I would think its a lot less than 150 gallons.
                There are many variables that contribute to this...

                Hose size, sprayer type, power washer, no power washer, weather or not the water is running the entire time, how quickly you rinse, do you pre-rinse, do you rinse the wheel wells?

                It is really a tough call...

                If the car is really dirty and you leave the hose running the entire time, 150 is not out of the question, but if you are conscientious, you could probably cut that way down to 10 - 20 gallons pretty easily.

                That's where mist and wipe detailers and even the rinseless washes come into play and can be beneficial. As you know, we have had a "Quik Detailer" out since the mid 80's

                Mike
                Mike Pennington
                Director of Global Training, Events and Consumer Relations
                Meguiar's, Inc.
                800-854-8073
                mpennington@meguiars.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Very disturbing news

                  Originally posted by ClearlyCoated View Post
                  I actually posted a thread on Bayes Waterless Car Wash yesterday, don't know if you saw it.

                  First, any law to ban mobile detailing would be a judicial nightmare to enact. I would imagine that it's unconstitutional by most state charters (and probably the feds too) to restrict free enterprise and damage or restrict the livelihood of private business. Most state legislators would be afraid to touch this, let alone champion it.

                  2nd, the 150 gallons per wash claim might be aptly applied to an average car owner who has no compunction to conserve water and heavily floods his or her vehicle unnecessarily. And the 150 gallons is likely an exaggeration used by Bayes to market their product. Using a nozzle with a stop trigger handle, I estimate that I use no more water washing my car than I would use taking a ten minute shower (maybe less). I pulse the water to wet the car down, and again to rinse so I measure myself as I wash my car. And while I can't quantify my numbers, I can see my runoff in the gutter and it almost never extends more than 2 or 3 car lengths down the street. I'm sure professional detailers can or could find a way to accurately measure every ounce they use.
                  I just read your post on Bayes. I overlooked it before.

                  It may be unscontitutional (where can I find that?) and a judicial nightmare to ban mobile detailing for legislators, but under the banner of "being green" it might be much more acceptable eventually. There are a lot of businesses suffering from eco-friendly laws and restrictions already. Take commercial fishing, for example. How many have been put out of business indirectly by stiffer regulations?

                  This kind of hit home with me because Florida has had well publicized water issues for years and it's only getting worse with each new resident and business using more and more resources. It's not hard to imagine a day when water costs more than gas and it will be mandatory to take my vehicle to the car wash, especially with industry lobbyists having control of our government. That's not likely to change any time soon. And who is more powerful, small business owners, the private citizen, or industry lobbyists? Or should I say, who exercises their muscle more by joining forces? Not the general public, for sure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Very disturbing news

                    Originally posted by Mike Pennington View Post
                    There are many variables that contribute to this...

                    Hose size, sprayer type, power washer, no power washer, weather or not the water is running the entire time, how quickly you rinse, do you pre-rinse, do you rinse the wheel wells?

                    It is really a tough call...

                    Mike
                    I mean the way the professionals at Meguiar's wash cars.

                    Meguiar's just needs to make a product like ONR now
                    AeroCleanse, LLC
                    Wisconsin's Elite Detailing Service
                    www.aerocleanse.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Very disturbing news

                      150 gallons sounds like an lot,but you could test it by checking a before and after with your water meter.You would have to convert the units into approximate gallons.

                      Unless you do deliberately use very little water,I think you'd be surprised at how much water you've used.This is going to vary greatly from one person to another.I've never checked,myself,but I think it could be quite high.

                      There are certain times in the summer here aswell,where we are not allowed to use water for washing cars and gardening,etc.,and there is an on the spot fine if you get caught.But the car washes with the roller brushes are allowed to continue,and I think they waste much more.Plus I don't want to put my car through one of those.

                      I think this product you mentioned earlier is just a spin off.If I'm stuck,I use QD and a micro and it works.

                      I think more of these water cleansing plants would be a good idea,though,instead of going into lakes or rivers.

                      TOP

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Very disturbing news

                        I have a water meter on the water softener (inside water only) and a human shower is about 11 gallons. Thats the only reason I think 150 gallons for a car wash seems like a lot.
                        AeroCleanse, LLC
                        Wisconsin's Elite Detailing Service
                        www.aerocleanse.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Very disturbing news

                          I don't know how I would measure it, but I would guess 15-20 gallons per wash for me. 150 gallons seems way out of line to me, but then so does a$500.00 hammer.

                          Dave
                          You repair things with tools. You fix things with a hammer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Very disturbing news

                            I think the next time i wash the car,i'll do a meter check.the only trouble is,I might deliberately use less because I know i want it to be low.I didn't know about the average shower.I know flushing the toilet is a gallon.I think the figures should be fairly accurate.

                            TOP

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Very disturbing news

                              I checked the 50 gallon water tank in my truck before and after my last car wash. Total used was 13 gallons including pressure washer for wheel wells, wheels and quickly blasting dirt out of trim and gaps before using ONR to wash. There was very little on the drive and virtually no run-off as it evaporated quickly in the 100 degree heat.

                              Here's a calculator for every day household water usage. Wow! Really made me think...

                              http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/conser.../thepowerof10/

                              Comment

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