car died...

[Tom Weed]

My horror story for the past weekend...

My 2003 Grand Prix all of a sudden last week started running really bad, sputtering and missing, drove it to Oriley's and put a analyzer on it, cylinder 1 wasn't firing, so I talk to a relative who lives in Louisville and is a mechanic at a Pontiac dealership told me to check the coil packs and plug wires, which I decided to change the plugs and wires anways. I am no mechanic and finding out I had to unbolt the motor mounts to roll the motor forward to get to the back plugs blew my mind...

So, after changing the plugs, wires and verying the coil packs were good, it still ran the same, so it was on to the injectors, taking the plenum housing off wasn't too much fun either, but I was told to measure the resistance across the injectors and if it was in the range of 13 ohms, they were good, which they were. I did not have a compression tester, and thought the next thing was the head gasket, that was more that I wanted to get myself into. I had the car towed away this weekend and heard back from the guy who was going to do the work that I had no compression in cylinder 1, but the head gaskets were good... I think he said he was going to have to pull the heads off and replace the valves? I haven't talked to him today yet, but this is going to cost me close to 1000 dollars and for a car with 58K miles I am very disappointed, the car went out of warranty at 50K miles so it's my baby...

I keep hearing horror stories about the 3.1 and 3.4 Litre GM motors going through intake and head gaskets quite often which tells me it's a poor design. At this point I can't ever see myself owning another GM again...

[gmc1500]

Re: car died...

If you are going to need to replace the heads or possible the engine you should check ebay you can find used GM v6 engines for about 800 bucks. I have a Olds Intrigue (same frame as your Pontiac) and I moniter used parts on ebay motors all the time and its dirt cheap!!!! Goodluck.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: car died...

I keep hearing horror stories about the 3.1 and 3.4 Litre GM motors going through intake and head gaskets quite often which tells me it's a poor design. At this point I can't ever see myself owning another GM again...

The V-6 engines right? Just had one rebuilt for a 1997 Buick Park Avenue with real low mileage.

Less than $2000.00 for everything at a local auto repair shop.

[dvtldav]

Re: car died...

My horror story for the past weekend...

At this point I can't ever see myself owning another GM again...

The way GM is going, you might not have to worry about owning another GM again.

Dave

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: car died...

Tom, sorry to hear about the Pontiac. Hopefully your mechanic will get her running right.

[Tom Weed]

Re: car died...

The good news is, I really have some good friends, one of which was nice enough to let me drive their spare vehicle which is a 04 YukonXL and black. I figured the least I could do was detail it for him while I have it all week, but this things a beast! It's probably going to take me all week doing it in the evenings and in sections. 205 on an orange LC pad on the Flex is working nicely...

[MyFirstES300]

Re: car died...

Tom, sorry about your car. Ironic that Pontiac just went under as well.

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: car died...

It seems every manufacturer has their own problems...

Some may remember the intake and catalytic converter failure on the my '04 Sable with 36k on the clock. Well, it took three months for the dealer to get the converters under warranty. After the repair, it still didn't run right. During spring break, I took the car to the other dealership and it turns out that the original dealer never replaced the converters...

The $1k for the valve work isn't too bad (the intake manifold made of plastic cost me $1k in total).

[Tuck91]

Re: car died...

Sorry to hear about this Tom, I hope everything works out.

keep us posted.

[roushstage2]

Re: car died...

My horror story for the past weekend...

My 2003 Grand Prix all of a sudden last week started running really bad, sputtering and missing, drove it to Oriley's and put a analyzer on it, cylinder 1 wasn't firing, so I talk to a relative who lives in Louisville and is a mechanic at a Pontiac dealership told me to check the coil packs and plug wires, which I decided to change the plugs and wires anways. I am no mechanic and finding out I had to unbolt the motor mounts to roll the motor forward to get to the back plugs blew my mind...

So, after changing the plugs, wires and verying the coil packs were good, it still ran the same, so it was on to the injectors, taking the plenum housing off wasn't too much fun either, but I was told to measure the resistance across the injectors and if it was in the range of 13 ohms, they were good, which they were. I did not have a compression tester, and thought the next thing was the head gasket, that was more that I wanted to get myself into. I had the car towed away this weekend and heard back from the guy who was going to do the work that I had no compression in cylinder 1, but the head gaskets were good... I think he said he was going to have to pull the heads off and replace the valves? I haven't talked to him today yet, but this is going to cost me close to 1000 dollars and for a car with 58K miles I am very disappointed, the car went out of warranty at 50K miles so it's my baby...

I keep hearing horror stories about the 3.1 and 3.4 Litre GM motors going through intake and head gaskets quite often which tells me it's a poor design. At this point I can't ever see myself owning another GM again...

Part of the gasket problem is the GM Dex-Cool coolant. Not a too uncommon problem actually. The Dex Cool will eat/weaken plastic and rubber (gaskets on the intake mainly from what I have seen). A lot of people in the know, flush their system and switch it over to a G05 coolant to end the problem from the get go.

[Carfire]

Re: car died...

Sorry to hear the bad news.
But on the good side you get to DETAIL!!!

[Nappers]

Re: car died...

Are all the cylinders firing?

Start pulling plug wires off and see if it changes,I bet your Engine Control Module is out. Maybe.....

[CharlesW]

Re: car died...

The 3.1, 3.4, 3.8, 4.3 GM engines all have a history of head gasket problems.
The 3.4 and the 3.8 also have had some lower intake manifold gasket problems. I don't know if the 3.1 and 4.3 have the same intake manifold problem or not.
The really bad thing about the intake leak is that it isn't immediately noticeable and it can leak outside the engine which is a nuisance and loses some coolant or it can leak inside the engine which puts coolant into the oil. The combination is a very poor lubricant and tends to destroy an engine a very short time.

The comment about the original Dex-Cool is quite true. GM did change both the coolant make-up and the material in the gaskets, but that still leaves a lot of vehicles out there facing a possible problem.
At one time, a class action suit was being kicked around because of all the problems, but I don't know for sure how it worked out. It might be worth some research because I think GM was making some compensation to owners that had the problem.
We presently have vehicles with 3.4 (2004), 3.8 (2000), and 4.3 (1998) engines and the Dex-Cool was removed several years ago. We have not had the manifold leak or a head gasket problem with any of them.
The mechanic that does my work, (A very good one), says, "Not all the vehicles with Dex-Cool in them have cooling system problems, but almost all the vehicles they work on with cooling problems have Dex-Cool in them".

FWIW, all the manufacturers have their share of problems. Ask your mechanic about the Ford 3.8 head gasket problems around the turn of the century. Check on the Chrysler transmission problems, the Honda transmission problems, the Toyota oil gallery problems, the Lexus complete motor replacements under warranty, (If you knew about the program).
None of them are defect free. All you can do is try to take care of them and hope for the best.

[Deaner5]

Re: car died...

Thanks everyone, now I won't be able to sleep due to having a 3.8L in my '01 Grand Prix which is gradually losing Dex-Cool (not a lot but I do have to top it off a bit).

Sorry to ask another question within a thread, but I just turned 85,000 miles and have NOT had the coolant changed or checked and I was planning on having it looked at (I have had the car since about 15,000 miles back in 2004). Thanks for the input and comments.

[CharlesW]

Re: car died...

Thanks everyone, now I won't be able to sleep due to having a 3.8L in my '01 Grand Prix which is gradually losing Dex-Cool (not a lot but I do have to top it off a bit).

Sorry to ask another question within a thread, but I just turned 85,000 miles and have NOT had the coolant changed or checked and I was planning on having it looked at (I have had the car since about 15,000 miles back in 2004). Thanks for the input and comments.

Don't wait!
If you are loosing coolant, something is wrong! If you have it checked immediately, you may save yourself a lot of money.
The lower intake manifold gasket replacement will probably be ine the $600 to $800 dollar range. The head gasket replacement is likely to be in the $1100+ area.
If you let it go, you can be looking at $2000 to $4000+ for engine work.

Like I said; Don't wait!

Personal opinion:
Anyone that has Dex-Cool as their coolant, I would change it immediately. Supposedly it has been changed so it doesn't create problems, but who knows?