US Citizenship test.

[fhotchki]

Re: US Citizenship test.

Well I am appalled at the test. Question 20 is not correct. There is absolutely no constitutional right to vote. There are ammendments which say you can not be kept from voting due to race, religion, gender etc...But you do not have a right to vote.


The supreme court has ruled this many times as the states determine how and who votes.

This is a decent reads on it

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20001213.html

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/political_reform/right_to_vote.html

And if we had the right to vote,, why would this bill be in congress?

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/political_reform/amendment_constitutional_voting_right.html

So all of you who think you have a perfect score, well I guess you do considering the test is wrong. But those of you who know the truth and got the last one wrong, don't feel so bad.. It seems you know more than the USCIS..

[Lydia]

Re: US Citizenship test.

It seems rather odd to me that the right to vote is, on the test, more important than the right to free speech. After all, wouldn't the importance of certain rights be based on a person's individual opinion of which is more important? Who's to say that if you think the right to free speach is more important than the right to vote (ignoring for the moment whether or not you even have a constitutional right to vote), you're wrong? JMO.

[fhotchki]

Re: US Citizenship test.

It seems rather odd to me that the right to vote is, on the test, more important than the right to free speech. After all, wouldn't the importance of certain rights be based on a person's individual opinion of which is more important? Who's to say that if you think the right to free speach is more important than the right to vote (ignoring for the moment whether or not you even have a constitutional right to vote), you're wrong? JMO.

I agree, even if it was a right, it is personal opinion.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: US Citizenship test.

I agree, even if it was a right, it is personal opinion.

Maybe, maybe not. The first Continental Congress declared that the people's two greatest rights were "having a share in their own government by represetatives chose of themselves" and the "great right to trial by jury". As I mentioned in my earlier post here, I too had initially thought freedom of speech was the more important but then considered that voting is the ultimate expression of that freedom. When you think about it, if you take away the right to vote then you lose democracy completely. Without democracy you eventually devolve into totalitarianism (look at ANY country in the world throughout history that did not allow its citizens to vote) and freedom of speech goes out the window. Unlike "which came first, the chicken or the egg?", the right to vote must come first or you'll never have freedom of speech.

EDIT to add: It should also be noted that, although freedom of speech is granted in the First Amendment to the US Constitution, the Articles of the Constitution not only lay out the basic government structure, but also the fact that members of the House, Senate and the President will be elected by the people of the states.

[fhotchki]

Re: US Citizenship test.

Maybe, maybe not. The first Continental Congress declared that the people's two greatest rights were "having a share in their own government by represetatives chose of themselves" and the "great right to trial by jury". As I mentioned in my earlier post here, I too had initially thought freedom of speech was the more important but then considered that voting is the ultimate expression of that freedom. When you think about it, if you take away the right to vote then you lose democracy completely. Without democracy you eventually devolve into totalitarianism (look at ANY country in the world throughout history that did not allow its citizens to vote) and freedom of speech goes out the window. Unlike "which came first, the chicken or the egg?", the right to vote must come first or you'll never have freedom of speech.

EDIT to add: It should also be noted that, although freedom of speech is granted in the First Amendment to the US Constitution, the Articles of the Constitution not only lay out the basic government structure, but also the fact that members of the House, Senate and the President will be elected by the people of the states.

Yes, but the constitution does not guarantee everyone the right to vote... And, the founders hated democracy.. you will not find that in the constitution, but you will find it in the communist manifesto. If there was a right to vote I would agree that it is the most important. I am just merely pointing out the fact the the constitution does not guarantee you that right.

[Lydia]

Re: US Citizenship test.

About Mike's statement: that's the thought that I originally had that made me choose the right to vote over freedom of speech. But now that I think about it again, seeing as how voting is the ultimate expression of freedom of speech, isn't then freedom of speech above freedom to vote and therefore more important? It's starting to get confusing now lol.

[fhotchki]

Re: US Citizenship test.

About Mike's statement: that's the thought that I originally had that made me choose the right to vote over freedom of speech. But now that I think about it again, seeing as how voting is the ultimate expression of freedom of speech, isn't then freedom of speech above freedom to vote and therefore more important? It's starting to get confusing now lol.

Ha ha.. yup confusing. It wasn't until reading over the last few years that I came to see that the states have the right to determine voting rules. and there were many people who can not vote.

Think about this there are millions of U.S. citizens in Puerto Rico that are not allowed to vote for President... and why is this? It could only be because there is really no written right to vote. Now the question is, should there be? This makes my head hurt.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: US Citizenship test.

Ha ha.. yup confusing. It wasn't until reading over the last few years that I came to see that the states have the right to determine voting rules. and there were many people who can not vote.

Think about this there are millions of U.S. citizens in Puerto Rico that are not allowed to vote for President... and why is this? It could only be because there is really no written right to vote. Now the question is, should there be? This makes my head hurt.

I think the operative word here is "were". While it's true that when the Constitution was written only "free men" had the right to vote (thereby excluding slaves and women) subsequent amendments changed that. The Constitution is a living document and has changed numerous times over the years - evidence Amendment 18 (Prohibition) and Amendment 21 (the repeal of Amendment 18!!). As for Puerto Rico, while the citizens of PR may well also be citizens of the USA (as per the Jones-Shafroth Act of 1917), Puerto Rico is not technically a State - it's more a territory or possession much like various other States, of groups of States, were prior to becoming part of the Union. The Constitution mentions in several places "the People of the several States" (or similar) with regard to voting. Currently Puerto Rico does not enjoy that status. Right, wrong or otherwise, that's the bizarre sort of limbo situation PR is in at the moment.

[fhotchki]

Re: US Citizenship test.

I think the operative word here is "were". While it's true that when the Constitution was written only "free men" had the right to vote (thereby excluding slaves and women) subsequent amendments changed that. The Constitution is a living document and has changed numerous times over the years - evidence Amendment 18 (Prohibition) and Amendment 21 (the repeal of Amendment 18!!). As for Puerto Rico, while the citizens of PR may well also be citizens of the USA (as per the Jones-Shafroth Act of 1917), Puerto Rico is not technically a State - it's more a territory or possession much like various other States, of groups of States, were prior to becoming part of the Union. The Constitution mentions in several places "the People of the several States" (or similar) with regard to voting. Currently Puerto Rico does not enjoy that status. Right, wrong or otherwise, that's the bizarre sort of limbo situation PR is in at the moment.

I guess we could argue this forever, but even the supreme court has ruled against this as late as Bush V Gore. "the individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States"
Here is some more good reading on this:

http://www.house.gov/jackson/VotingRightsFAQ.shtml

I am not a democract, nor do I endorse Jackson at all, but he has a voting rights ammendment that has 58 co sponosors... So even though you may think there is an implicit right to vote in the constitution, there is no explicit one. Congressman Jackson, seeing the constitution as a living document is attempting to change it.

If there was a true right to vote for all citizens, it should not matter that you live in Puerto Rico, there are many citizens abroad that vote i federal elections with absentee ballots. Most of the voting laws are left to the states (10th amendment), and that is why felons are not allowed to vote in some states, but not all. If the rights was federally guaranteed to all citizens than it would and should be the same for all.

[Joe's detailing]

Re: US Citizenship test.

I got them all correct.. I can't remember driving in to work today but remember all kinds of trivia.

Tic

That makes me feel safe ....

[Michael Stoops]

Re: US Citizenship test.

I guess we could argue this forever, but even the supreme court has ruled against this as late as Bush V Gore. "the individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States"
Here is some more good reading on this:

http://www.house.gov/jackson/VotingRightsFAQ.shtml

I am not a democract, nor do I endorse Jackson at all, but he has a voting rights ammendment that has 58 co sponosors... So even though you may think there is an implicit right to vote in the constitution, there is no explicit one. Congressman Jackson, seeing the constitution as a living document is attempting to change it.

If there was a true right to vote for all citizens, it should not matter that you live in Puerto Rico, there are many citizens abroad that vote i federal elections with absentee ballots. Most of the voting laws are left to the states (10th amendment), and that is why felons are not allowed to vote in some states, but not all. If the rights was federally guaranteed to all citizens than it would and should be the same for all.

OK, I see what you're talking about, specifically, here. The Electoral College is used ONLY for electing the President and VP - both houses of congress are elected by a direct vote of the people. There is no group of people within the various States who are denied the right to vote in ANY election whether local, state or federal - but there does exist the possibility that a majority of the popular vote will not put in office the individual who gathered same. That's as much an issue of crazy districting as anything else, and that all comes down to power plays by sitting legislators who couldn't get a decent real job if they tried!!! (sarcasm folks, sarcasm) If Jackson wants to argue semantics that's fine, and quite honestly I have no problem with abolishing the Electoral College as I believe we truly should each have a direct vote - cut out the middle man so to speak.

[fhotchki]

Re: US Citizenship test.

OK, I see what you're talking about, specifically, here. The Electoral College is used ONLY for electing the President and VP - both houses of congress are elected by a direct vote of the people. There is no group of people within the various States who are denied the right to vote in ANY election whether local, state or federal - but there does exist the possibility that a majority of the popular vote will not put in office the individual who gathered same. That's as much an issue of crazy districting as anything else, and that all comes down to power plays by sitting legislators who couldn't get a decent real job if they tried!!! (sarcasm folks, sarcasm) If Jackson wants to argue semantics that's fine, and quite honestly I have no problem with abolishing the Electoral College as I believe we truly should each have a direct vote - cut out the middle man so to speak.

I am not just talking about the electoral college. And Jackson actually has another bill to get rid of the electoral college. Which is totally separate from this one.. And I am not for it at all. And I also am not cool with the people of the state voting for their senators. I would love the 17th amendment to be repealed as the founders wanted the states government to have direct representation to the federal government. This country was formed as a representative republic NOT a direct democracy.

There are 8+ million citizens of the united states of America who can NOT vote for federal representation due solely to where they live. The only way you can say they have the right to vote is if you mean in a local election. And the constitution does not provide for setting local election law, the states can and do say whom can vote. (10th Amendment) As I already have mentioned some states do not allow felons, or ex felons to vote.

If our own elected members of Congress feel the need to have an amendment guaranteeing the right to vote, I think they also believe it is not explicitly guaranteed.

Here is a little bit about a ruling based on a law suit for voting rights for Puerto Ricans:

Since the 1970s, United States citizens living outside of the fifty states have sought the right to vote in presidential elections through the federal courts. In Sanchez v. United States, a Puerto Rican citizen challenged the constitutionality of a statute allowing the island's people to consent to commonwealth status, since it did not explicitly include the right to vote in presidential elections. In dismissing the action, the district court held that all citizens do not have the right to vote in presidential elections because "the Constitution does not, by its terms, grant citizens the right to vote, but leaves the matter entirely to the States."

Oh well this has been fun and thought provoking. time to move on to something else.

[Jbirk]

Re: US Citizenship test.

I did not know how many there were in the house of representatives, and I thought the "Freedom of Speech" is the most important right.

What is a passing score?