To Bead, or Not To Bead...

[VoicesInMyHead]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

I read a lot about people wishing for a product that didn't bead, and simply sheeted only. I understand why people would wish that, but it isn't practical... here's why: beading will occur on a properly waxed surface (as explained above from the Google search), but it is unreasonable to expect water to be sheeted off of surfaces that are flat, or close to flat. An outside force such as gravity or wind is needed to take the beads and create a sheeting action.

I am quite aware of gravity (as stated in my OP and every morning by the bathroom scale )... however, I am unaware of very many truly "flat" surfaces on vehicles (although some do come close!). And by flat I will assume you mean level or perpendicular to the ground, since you are relating force to it. And, I completely understand the issue, and was not advocating that a surface could be completely clear and clean, but I believe the thousands of spots could be minimized.

A quality wax/sealant like M21 2.0/NXT 2.0/Ultimate Quik Wax will leave a surface that will bead on horizontal surfaces, and if the vehicle is driven the water should bunch together and sheet away. The sheeting will naturally occur on the sides of the car where gravity can do its part.

Unless you are in a situation as I described in my OP, and not driving it.

I also read some people making claims that beading due to wax is actually harmful because (as they claim), it [the beads] creates water spotting. Not true! When your dusty/dirty car is rained on and the water is forced into beads, which lar dry, you are not creating "water spots" that wouldn't have occurred just the same, just in different shapes.

I never stated that rain would cause water spots. I stated my issues was it leaving dust craters from the dust that had been captured by the beaded water. The shape is not really an issue either, it's the fact they are left behind in multitude.

The wax simply forces the water together, into beads, which consequently can dry in circular patterns. On an un-waxed car the same dirt and water deposits will happen, they will just cover the entire surface of the car evenly, giving the false impression of being "better" due to a lack of water spots.

umm... ok, never mentioned any issues with an un-waxed (or unprotected) paint surface.

Personally, I'll take the waxed surface where the dirt forms circular deposits because I know that when it comes time for me to wash the car the deposits will be removed with less effort, and this induce fewer swirls.

Again, I was not discussing an unprotected surface. So, we do agree that a protected surface is best, I just want the best water management from that protection.

[Carfire]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

Sheeting, Less Work.
Then the car is dry.
I want a product to work in the rain though, not one that sheets just with the hose, but one with the rain, so the car is mainly dry. Although right now with NXT 2.0 so beads combine and fly off at 45 MPH.

[Megafast13]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

I believe I saw a Meguiars demo on the tv about how well water was sheeting off a painted panel and almost looked like it went "uphill", I'll have to search for that.

I know what your talking about. It is on Jay Leno's Garage I believe. Or Maybe in the Meguiars video gallery on the main site.

[VoicesInMyHead]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

Is there a way to have a well prepared, waxed surface not bead?

A google search produced the following on "why does water bead ?"

Why does water bead up better on a well waxed car?
(Lansing State Journal, August 10, 1994)

I believe I saw a Meguiars demo on the tv about how well water was sheeting off a painted panel and almost looked like it went "uphill", I'll have to search for that.

[VoicesInMyHead]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

With the sheeting of water less work in the long run. I am all for it.

Beads = Looks Cool. Reassures of protection still in the paint

Sheets = May help reducing swirls and water spots

I like the look of beading, you will at least look good in some degree during the pouring rain by beading.

Ever see other cars where the rain just about dries on impact?

Hmmm... never thought beads look cool... i'll have to ponder that...

[Markus Kleis]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

I read a lot about people wishing for a product that didn't bead, and simply sheeted only. I understand why people would wish that, but it isn't practical... here's why: beading will occur on a properly waxed surface (as explained above from the Google search), but it is unreasonable to expect water to be sheeted off of surfaces that are flat, or close to flat. An outside force such as gravity or wind is needed to take the beads and create a sheeting action.

A quality wax/sealant like M21 2.0/NXT 2.0/Ultimate Quik Wax will leave a surface that will bead on horizontal surfaces, and if the vehicle is driven the water should bunch together and sheet away. The sheeting will naturally occur on the sides of the car where gravity can do its part.

I also read some people making claims that beading due to wax is actually harmful because (as they claim), it [the beads] creates water spotting. Not true! When your dusty/dirty car is rained on and the water is forced into beads, which later dry, you are not creating "water spots" that wouldn't have occurred just the same, just in different shapes. The wax simply forces the water together, into beads, which consequently can dry in circular patterns. On an un-waxed car the same dirt and water deposits will happen, they will just cover the entire surface of the car evenly, giving the false impression of being "better" due to a lack of water spots.

Personally, I'll take the waxed surface where the dirt forms circular deposits because I know that when it comes time for me to wash the car the deposits will be removed with less effort, and this induce fewer swirls.

[Jeff U]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

Is there a way to have a well prepared, waxed surface not bead?

A google search produced the following on "why does water bead ?"

Why does water bead up better on a well waxed car?
(Lansing State Journal, August 10, 1994)

Water is a polar molecule, composed of two hydrogen atoms bonded to a single oxygen atom. Water molecules like to stick to one another, like small magnets. This is called cohesion.

Water molecules also can be attracted to other substances, such as metal or dirt, especially if they have some static charge on them. This is called adhesion.

Lastly, some substances are not at all attracted to water, and even repel it. These include oils, fats and waxes; all of which are called non-polar substances.

When water falls on an unwaxed car, the forces of adhesion are almost as strong as the forces of cohesion, and the water spreads out. Furthermore, if the painted surface is not perfectly smooth, water can be channeled for some distance along tiny ridges and valleys. This is particularly true if there is dirt on the car. The dirt itself may be charged, and attract water even more. These tiny flaws may not be readily visible without a magnifying glass, but you can sense a rough surface when you run your hand over it. On such a rough surface, drops of water appear flat and wide and often uneven.

Car wax, when applied properly to a clean car, fills in the larger scratches and layers the whole car. The chemical structure of the wax prevents water from penetrating to the surface of the car. Because the wax itself is hydrophobic (literally "fears water"), the forces of adhesion are much less than the forces of cohesion. So, water is more likely to stick to itself, and water beads up higher and rounder than on an unwaxed car.

[Tuck91]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

I like the look of beading, you will at least look good in some degree during the pouring rain by beading.

Ever see other cars where the rain just about dries on impact?

[Chop]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

Beads = Looks Cool. Reassures of protection still in the paint

Sheets = May help reducing swirls and water spots

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: To Bead, or Not To Bead...

With the sheeting of water less work in the long run. I am all for it.

[VoicesInMyHead]

So, maybe it's me. Getting up in years and having spent a lot of time in the effects of gravity, I have come to a different view on what I want out of the affects of gravity on water. Living in what some would consider to be Arrakis / Dune / Desert Planet... dust is a constant presence everywhere (without the benefit of the spice Melange, which we all know extends life, expands consciousness and is vital to space travel ).

Water beading does nothing but create nice little dust craters that emulate the surface of the moon on every square millimeter of my vehicles.This is not just an “after washing” issue, but also if you unknowingly park next to a sprinkler at the mall or it rains while your paint is exposed to the sky.

Some may want so see the beads as “proof” there is protection on the vehicle... well, I don't need proof. My OCD knows for a fact, that I take care of the paint and I would venture a guess that most of us Car Crazy MOL members keep regular protection on our paint regardless of any beading.

I would prefer to avoid water beading. I want water to sheet off my vehicle, and appear as clean as possible when out and about, no matter what that cruel dominatrix called Mother Nature chooses to spank us with.

So, who else swims against the water beading current in the river of detailing? And why do you want or not want to see those little domes of contaminate magnets? Such as, less beads after washing, means less chance to instill swirls during the drying process due to less surface area that needs a towel.

Thoughts?