To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

[cardaddy]

Hi all,

First a warning that sometimes (IE most of the time) I may go long with the post(s).
A little background; Been detailing cars (weekend warrior) since the early 70's so I guess you'd call me "old school". Have had a number of orbital and DA's from old school drill attachments to flat style Makita's, to the big (weak) 8" steering wheel looking things.

My (current) 5 cars run from DD's to some that just sit. Have a 06 G35 6MT Laser Red that has been in the rain 5 times total. Stays garaged (and covered half the time). Nothing but towel scratches on that one, no buffer swirls etc. very slick overall with Xpel front end coverage.

The rest of the cars are DD's (although the 99 Caddy only gets driven when it's raining and I don't have anything else to drive) This is the one that needs the most cleanup work as it sits in the driveway. Have a Denali (the wife's DD) that she abuses and will be the one needing the most paint work (garnet red metallic). The other two are a 2000 4Runner (the kids) that has perfect paint as far as no nicks or dings, just needs a good DEEP 2 day cleaning. Then there is a Pontaic GTP with a ton of paint on it, (that the daughter had a few minor wrecks with while going to college) but the paint is good, deep REALLY deep, and glossy. She's a stickler about that car and loves to work on it. (drilled & slotted rotors, calipers, plugs CAI etc. that she did all herself) The Pontiac while having a lot of paint on it has trash here and there in the paint that I'd like to buff out.

So; I said that to say this..... Five vehicles with paint from darned near perfect to needing a couple of days detailing on them. My needs for setting up a new cabinet of product runs from mild to something that'll cut fairly well.

Just picked up the GG6 & LC CCS pads (orange, pink, blue, black 2, red) and NEED to build a new 'chem' package to go with it. I was thinking I'd do it based on SMAT only products. Back in the old days I would have started with plain old compound and worked from there. However, I was young, dumb, and full of arm strength back then. These days I need to work smart.

So; first things first. As for my favorite products in the past I've been a big Megs fan REALLY big Megs fan in fact. Using what I could get here and there with no real rhyme or reason other than to build up a finish from one product to another. That being said, I want to move to a full multi-step program.

I don't need info on the wash and clay end of things, got that handled. Two buckets, grit guards, etc. When doing a full detail I *always* clay, even on the G35 that sits in the garage under a cover.

What I'm wanting to do is REALLY step up after the wash/clay is complete. Just break out the new DA and tear at it.
I'm retired and do this as a hobby (although ran my own towing business for 18 years and had quite a bit of experience washing trucks)
I want to do a complete multi-step finish restoration (on most vehicles), a cutting compound, a NICE sealer/glaze, then a deep wax, and of course a "final inspection" wipe down.

I'd like to hear recommendations for ALL possible polishes (IE 1,2,3,4 etc) that fit in the SMAT line. Then move to glazes, sealers, waxes and finishers. Be it consumer or Pro doesn't matter, just as long as it's DA and foam pad friendly. (And yes I know the wax and/or sealers on top isn't SMAT, and have used Gold Class paste for years, along with NXT paste, and a number of sprays.


OTOH, maybe I'm wrong to think SMAT. Perhaps DAT would be better. It's just that I understand the idea behind SMAT, like it, and figure it would
be perfect to try and fill my detailing cabinet with a 'new school' kit and see where I can take it.

Thanks in advance everyone, I look forward to your recommendations.


Tony
cardaddy

[Murr1525]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

#80 has a lot of polishing oils, and is nice for single stage paint, or show cars, although #7 can also be used to get a lot of polishing oils on the surface before waxing.

Other than that, it is pretty simple at a 'starting' point, unless one of your paints were to act up a bit.

Ultimate Compound would be a good strong cleaner.
Ult. Polish would be a good mild cleaner and polish.
And then jus tyour favorite wax after.

But those would be the products to looks at... can ask some more about how to use htem if needed, although not too difficult/differnet really.

[BillyJack]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

I, too, came from the old school of buffing paint, learning from a bodyman in the 60's. I agree with your thoughts of going SMAT. It eliminates having to learn or recognize the "timing" curve of conventional DAT products. Here's everything you need to know about the SMAT product line, posted by Mike Phillips who spent many years as a Meguiar's product trainer before joining AutoGeek.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23561-smat-pack-everything-you-ever-wanted-know-about-meguiar-s-smat-products.html

Bill

[wifpd4]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

Bill,

Thanks for the link. Nice reading.

[jhhodges]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

Also Thanks. Understand much better now.

[cardaddy]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

#80 has a lot of polishing oils, and is nice for single stage paint, or show cars, although #7 can also be used to get a lot of polishing oils on the surface before waxing.

Other than that, it is pretty simple at a 'starting' point, unless one of your paints were to act up a bit.

Ultimate Compound would be a good strong cleaner.
Ult. Polish would be a good mild cleaner and polish.
And then jus tyour favorite wax after.

But those would be the products to looks at... can ask some more about how to use htem if needed, although not too difficult/differnet really.

Thanks for the heads up. FWIW I've used the Meg Twins 105/205 in the past. That wasn't however with a new DA and foam pads, where I've read people are having problems with loading/gumming (likely from too much product on the pad but you get my drift).

Just figured it's a new age and with the literally dozens and dozens and dozens of Meguiars products out there that perhaps it's time to open up my detail cabinet, throw out some old stuff and bring in new.

I've got some 83, 20 polymer sealant, scratchX, Cleaner Wax, Deep Crystal 2, Quik Wax, Deep Crystal paste,Gold Class liquid, NXT paste, NXT Spray (not my favorite), NXT Tech Wax, Zymoil and probably a dozen bottles of wax/polish I picked up at car shows.
Then we add in all the detailer sprays like Final Inspection, Quik Detailer, NXT Detailer & NXT Tech Protect, Interior & Exterior Natural Shine & Cleaner sprays, and TONS of leather stuff, soaps, etc.

Looks like a Meguiars musuem in my garage!

That being said; it feels a bit mis-matched and unorganized. (No wonder my wife just rolls her eyes!)

[cardaddy]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

I, too, came from the old school of buffing paint, learning from a bodyman in the 60's. I agree with your thoughts of going SMAT. It eliminates having to learn or recognize the "timing" curve of conventional DAT products. Here's everything you need to know about the SMAT product line, posted by Mike Phillips who spent many years as a Meguiar's product trainer before joining AutoGeek.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/23561-smat-pack-everything-you-ever-wanted-know-about-meguiar-s-smat-products.html

Bill

Hey Bill, I'm DIGGING that El Camino!!!


Yup, read Mike's post on the SMAT products. That's what got me to thinking about this thing actually. Posted pretty much the same post as this one over there, (same user name), tons of looks but no replies, go figure. Actually I stayed logged on for 30 hours looking at the BOGO and Cyber deals watching the cart add up, then when I went to check out most of it was gone. Oh well.

Back to the SMAT thing.... It just seems with the newer paints (some are terribly soft like on my red G35) that going with a consistent universal base (albeit different levels of cut from one to another) would 1: be easier to work with, 2: take away worries about having a zillion different pads for products, & 3: make maintenance across a fleet of cars less tiring.

Like I said earlier, "back then I was young and dumb with strong arms".


Speaking of tons of stuff. Here's a shot of just PART of it sitting around.Twice that much in the cabinet, and HALF that much in the trunk of my freakin' car!

[Murr1525]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

Well, the #105 is meant for very fresh paint, so it isnt as oily as some products, so can dry faster.

UC is based on #105, but has more oils for the general DA use.

Ult. Polish and #205 are also related, Ult. Polish having more oils. UC and #205 is a fine combination also.

If the paint is soft, sometimes you have to get a bit more creative, even things like cleaner/waxes for very soft paint.

[cardaddy]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

Well, the #105 is meant for very fresh paint, so it isnt as oily as some products, so can dry faster.

UC is based on #105, but has more oils for the general DA use.

Ult. Polish and #205 are also related, Ult. Polish having more oils. UC and #205 is a fine combination also.

If the paint is soft, sometimes you have to get a bit more creative, even things like cleaner/waxes for very soft paint.

That's what I needed to hear RE the 105 UC and oils. I need the cut on a couple of my vehicles but that paint is anything but fresh. Having the oils can help with working time for sure. My Caddy was my Dad's and seriously needs to have some TLC time as it just sits in the drive on a battery charger getting less than 500 miles a year now. It's a great beater car, (especially as my G35 ain't going in no freakin' rain). The Caddy is really clean, just sits outside too much.

The Ult. Polish and 205 are likely all I'd need for the rest of the fleet. Still going to seal them all this time around though B4 waxing.

Warning thread drift:
Been looking at the Optimum stuff and will likely end up with a decent order of it just for snits-n-giggles. The Opti-seal is interesting enough but the Opti-Coat 2.0 look very interesting for a car that I just cannot get into a garage (only have room for 3). The idea of wiping on, auto leveling, and a hard shell is intriguing to say the least. The poor ol' Caddy is just screaming for something like that.
Actually I think I picked up something similar to the Opti-seal a few years back at a car show. Works like all get out on polished aluminum to make it as slick as greased owl-$hit with just a spritz and quick buffing wipe. Although the stuff I have smells funny but it's gotta' be similar.


Thread drift off:

Any-who... I'm going bananas to get out there and break in this new GG6 but have been on the "honey do" list all week. What with the wife taking off for the week, and SHE wanted me to help her put down a new tile floor in the basement last week. NOT!!! Did have to do a 330 mile round trip drive today to pickup free weights for my kid (AKA another Craig's List deal that the wife found).


Next week I'll at least be able to do some 205 (or finer) work on my G35 and get a good seal n wax on her. Poor baby has been sitting there all clayed and ready since Thursday morning.


Question on the Xpel coating(s) if ya' don't mind. All I've ever put on it till now is either Zymoil or Megs gold and NXT spray or Final Inspection. I'd like to get something better on it. If possible find something that'll help hide the scratches a bit. It's not peeled any on the edges, not cut, and NO yellowing just has a few scuffs from rocks and bugs over the last 6 years. (It's always garaged, and quite often covered as well) Will the Megs Polymer Sealant work on it ya' think? Pads??? Have a number of new CC's but was thinking I better run a flat pad on the Xpel. (I've got Summit Racing 5 minutes away, good source for Meg's pads.)


OTay, I'm a gonna' hush now.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

OK, so you're used to the detailing thing going back to the 1970's, which means you were most likely working on cars from the 1960's that were still fairly new at the time, up to the then current crop of smog choked iron from the 70's. That means that back the you were working almost exclusively on single stage paints, with some clear coats starting to show up here and there, expanding that reach as time went on.

Well, just as paint technology has advanced, so has paint polishing technology (not to mention we now have cars that run cleaner and with more power than they ever have in the past). That means you're thoughts of "going SMAT" make a lot of sense. In many cases the SMAT products not only cut faster but also leave as nice a finish, if not nicer. But the new tech in these liquids means adjusting your technique a bit, and that usually means using less product overall. There is huge love for M105 on detailing forums around the world, but in many cases it's a bit finicky to use on a DA and probably offers more cut than you actually need. Ultimate Compound, which is a consumer product derived from M105, generally produces much less dust, provides a longer buffing cycle, although it doesn't cut quite as much. But even so, for fairly typical swirl removal you don't always need the most potent compound on the market and we find in our Saturday Classes that UC is almost always up to the task. There have been maybe 3 cases in the past several years where we needed to step from UC in those classes to correct paint defects. If you're taking pretty good care of your current collection of vehicles, UC will most likely give you 95% of what you need. For the balance, having some M105 on hand makes a lot of sense - that '99 Caddy might be begging for it!

Now, if this is your hobby, you're retired and have the time to spend really taking the finish to a high level, then you'll probably want to follow any heavy correction steps with M205. It can do wonders to really add clarity and gloss to a finish, and it should bring that G35 to a crazy level of clarity that you haven't seen before. But being a SMAT product it's going to need a fairly short work time, even though it will stay "wet" for quite a while and people have a tendency to work it longer than they need to. This can actually slightly diminish results.

It sounds like you've done some good reading on the subject already, but we wanted to throw in those few tidbits just in case.

Oh yeah........ welcome to MOL!

[cardaddy]

Re: To SMAT or not to SMAT - Recommendations wanted

OK, so you're used to the detailing thing going back to the 1970's, which means you were most likely working on cars from the 1960's....

And yes I was, albeit late 60's cars. Although.... I learned to drive with a box of tire chains in the seat behind me, on the edge of the seat of a 63 Econoline flat nosed van when I was 9. Was my Dad's dry cleaning van and I just LOVED it!

...up to the then current crop of smog choked iron from the 70's....

Now THAT is where I really "shined". Guess you could say my biggest problem through the years is the "car wax mindset". Wipe on, wipe off.

That means you're thoughts of "going SMAT" make a lot of sense. In many cases the SMAT products not only cut faster but also leave as nice a finish, if not nicer....

That's why I came here. Just not getting a lot of answers on AG.

Ultimate Compound, which is a consumer product derived from M105, generally produces much less dust, provides a longer buffing cycle, although it doesn't cut quite as much....

Yeah I figured UC would be my new HD 'go to' and perhaps start from there on most of my stuff.

If you're taking pretty good care of your current collection of vehicles, UC will most likely give you 95% of what you need. For the balance, having some M105 on hand makes a lot of sense - that '99 Caddy might be begging for it!...

You my friend have been reading my mail!

Now, if this is your hobby, you're retired and have the time to spend really taking the finish to a high level, then you'll probably want to follow any heavy correction steps with M205. It can do wonders to really add clarity and gloss to a finish, and it should bring that G35 to a crazy level of clarity that you haven't seen before. But being a SMAT product it's going to need a fairly short work time, even though it will stay "wet" for quite a while and people have a tendency to work it longer than they need to. This can actually slightly diminish results.

Sounds like I'm off to Summit Racing (lucky enough to have one 5 minutes away) The lil' G isn't much but I like her. Averages 3K a year. The worst part; Laser red SS paint that HAS TO BE the thinnest paint I've ever owned. The best part; It never I mean NEVER gets dirty. Since 06 she's been in the rain 5 times total. I've got caught in only 1 real rainstorm when we rented a lake house for a week, took 2 cars (so I could go mountain driving in the G) and was raining the day we left. Today is machine day for this one (considering it's been clayed and covered since Thursday).

It sounds like you've done some good reading on the subject already, but we wanted to throw in those few tidbits just in case.

I'm trying brother. What's an old man to do.

Oh yeah........ welcome to MOL!

Glad to be here!

Later,
Cardaddy / aKa Tony