What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma coat

[xabre1200]

I have a 2009 Lexus RX350 in black and I noticed today that the car is covered in swirl marks. I looked online and saw many people recommending ultimate compound. However, I know that UC is quite abrasive as it does its job by stripping away a thin layer of clear coat? The thing is my RX350 has a perma layer that's applied by the dealership every time I take it in for service.

Any recommendations of what I should do? Btw is it possible the dealer caused all those swirl marks on my car because I always clean with a microfiber towel.

[ffboy]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

it could be that the swirls were caused by the dealer. The swirls don't appear at first, but after a couple of washes they appear.. and look terrible. And of all colors, black is the worst in making these paint imperfections visible. You can go the swirlX route or colorX. Colorx is the least abrasive. Just do a test spot to see how moch time and effort is needed to get the results you want. Remember, this may take time especially if you don't have a DA polisher.

yes, ultimately a small amount of clearcoat will be buffed out. Remember that these swirls/scratches are surfece imperfections. What happens is that you buff the clearcout so that the clear will be at the same level or height as the scratch.. or swirl. Perma layer? the dealesrship should have made sure that there are no swirls before applying perma layer. Kinda dumb, applying something on top of a swirled up finish. They end up protecting the paint and the swirls from UV rays, oxidayion, etc.

I'd go the swirlx then apply a coat of wax after regardless of the perma layer

[ffboy]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

Just read about perma coat thing. From what i understand, its a sealant type thing applied to the cars paint to protect it for a specific period of time. And i read that it ain't cheap.. maybe you can apply a layer or NXT 2.0 or Gold class CP after swirlx.

[EPHIOS]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

Is this "perma" coat the $800+ increase on the sticker price, I see on the dealers?

[xabre1200]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

Is this "perma" coat the $800+ increase on the sticker price, I see on the dealers?

Yup. Usually that $800 only covers a one time perma. However, my dealer gives me a whole new perma coat everytime I take my car in for service. Honestly... I really don't think they redue my entire perma coat as that would take an entire day. They usually send my car back after 6 hours, so... honestly don't know what they do.

Would ultimate compound strip off the perma layer? Because my car looks so bad right now as I can see all the swirl marks.

If I'm sure the dealer caused these scratches in my paint can I make them compensate me in any way?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

Odds are you'll never be able to prove the dealer put the swirls in, so that's probably a lost cause for you.

Ask yourself this, though - what is that Perma Coat designed to do that a proper synthetic sealant can't? Obviously it doesn't prevent swirls from happening, so that's not it. It needs to be reapplied regularly, so it doesn't last for years and years (like some other, similar coatings claim). What do you ultimately want out of the finish of this vehicle - just some good protection regardless of the ultimate appearance, or do you want it to look as good as it possibly can under the circumstances of it being a daily driver?

Yes, Ultimate Compound will remove the Perma Coat - so will anything applied to the paint that will actually remove the swirl marks. And in order to truly remove the swirl marks, you do need to remove some paint. But don't let that scare you because the amount of paint you're removing in order to get rid of those swirls is so minor you can't even measure it.

You may be thinking "how often can I remove swirls before I go through my clear coat?". Honestly, the answer to that is "maintain the vehicle properly and you won't be putting a lot of swirls in the paint to begin with, so removing them will be maybe a once a year proposition at worst." How are you washing the car now? Many tunnel car washes do a decent job of removing road grime, but a poor job of preventing swirls. In fact, many do an outstanding job of inflicting a huge amount of swirls! Finding a really good automatic car wash is hard to do. Not impossible, just hard.

Obviously we are big fans of people taking ownership of their vehicle's finish. Using the 5 Step Paint Care Cycle as a guide you can create a level of gloss and shine that will likely surprise your dealer, and yourself. And you'll be able to keep that gloss and shine for the entire time you own the vehicle. Sure, the correction process to reach that level is an investment in time and energy, but the maintenance afterwards is actually pretty easy, if you do it right.

[xabre1200]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

Odds are you'll never be able to prove the dealer put the swirls in, so that's probably a lost cause for you.

Ask yourself this, though - what is that Perma Coat designed to do that a proper synthetic sealant can't? Obviously it doesn't prevent swirls from happening, so that's not it. It needs to be reapplied regularly, so it doesn't last for years and years (like some other, similar coatings claim). What do you ultimately want out of the finish of this vehicle - just some good protection regardless of the ultimate appearance, or do you want it to look as good as it possibly can under the circumstances of it being a daily driver?

Yes, Ultimate Compound will remove the Perma Coat - so will anything applied to the paint that will actually remove the swirl marks. And in order to truly remove the swirl marks, you do need to remove some paint. But don't let that scare you because the amount of paint you're removing in order to get rid of those swirls is so minor you can't even measure it.

You may be thinking "how often can I remove swirls before I go through my clear coat?". Honestly, the answer to that is "maintain the vehicle properly and you won't be putting a lot of swirls in the paint to begin with, so removing them will be maybe a once a year proposition at worst." How are you washing the car now? Many tunnel car washes do a decent job of removing road grime, but a poor job of preventing swirls. In fact, many do an outstanding job of inflicting a huge amount of swirls! Finding a really good automatic car wash is hard to do. Not impossible, just hard.

Obviously we are big fans of people taking ownership of their vehicle's finish. Using the 5 Step Paint Care Cycle as a guide you can create a level of gloss and shine that will likely surprise your dealer, and yourself. And you'll be able to keep that gloss and shine for the entire time you own the vehicle. Sure, the correction process to reach that level is an investment in time and energy, but the maintenance afterwards is actually pretty easy, if you do it right.

Thanks for the awesome reply. Pretty much the main thing I am worried about when stripping down paint/perma is when I take my car back to the dealer again in a few months, they're going to attempt to "clean" it with whatever they do that causes swirls and scratches everywhere and I'm back to where I started again.

I was looking at colorX and was wondering that since it is not as abrasive as Ultimate Compound, would it not strip away as much paint?

I am a little new to the whole polishing with abrasives concept. For instance, if I were to use Ultimate Compound on my vehicle every month for 10 years, wouldn't the clear coat be stripped down so much that I would need it to be reapplied again?

[ffboy]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

In my opinion, swirl marks are a fact of life which is alot more visible on black cars. I also have a black car, and it ***** when swirls are really visible. Believe it or not, washing every day (water wash only) isn't really necessary. In fact, i try to avoid it. I just dust(er) off the car then use a detail spray to reshine the car. And in drying a car, some use chamois or those super microfiber drying cloths, don't use too much pressure. Use a smooth flowing motion in drying and mostly straight lines (one direction, then another). I use the water left on the first pass of my drying cloth as sort of a "lubricant".

As for the swirlX, Ultimate compound, etc. I don't think you'll be needing it that much. i would apply it IF NEEDED.. If i do see a few new swirls, instead of using the compound i would go the meguiars cleaner wax route. Apply maybe 2 even coats then apply a final wax (pure carnauba or NXT).

The durability and absence of swirls is largely dependent on how you maintain your paint.. If you master the 5-step paint care cycle, don't let anyone else wash/clean your car.

[ffboy]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

don't be intimidated by the swirlX and Ultimate compound. Its very user friendly (but not a breeze to use), it still requires a bit of effort and time, but nowhere near as difficult as older tech compounds. Just don't let it dry.. Apply the compound until its just about clear then remove immediately..

If you really want to make you paint give that awesome wet look, apply deep crystal polish. It has no abrasives, just polishing oils that give that shine and also gives wax something to bond to, and ultimately, make your wax last a bit longer.

[wifpd4]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

At least for me, my black Lexus gets swirls by breathing on it. I haven't tried ColorX on it, but since you have it; do a test spot. For me, the rear quarter panels are the worst for getting swirls.

When swirl free, get some NXT or Gold Class on there quick. Not quickly, but quick as the motion of the earth revolving around the sun will cause swirls. At least it seems that way.

Invest in some Ultimate Quik Detailer. It should be called Reflections-In-A-Bottle-For-Black-Lexus. Good for water beading too.

Also, somewhere there is an article called The Challenge of Delicate Paint. Read that.

Good luck and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

[stealth]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

I remember that Lexus black isn't clear coated so the perma is added. Prior to using anything abrasive try Meg's polish on a test spot & work it in like moisturizer then wipe it off before it dries. If ok polish then wax & hopefully you won. BTW Meg's carnuba is awesome on dark colors.

[Poki]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

From what I have read in this thread, you are defeating your purpose by letting the dealer touch your car. You will get a great finish that you are looking for by following the advice of our gang. My suggestion, once you get the finish you like, do NOT allow the dealer to touch it!! PERIOD. You have already spent the money up front but chalk it up to lesson learned.

[ffboy]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

no clear coar?? oh man.. i can't imagine how fragile the paint is.. and of all colors.. black! Thats the problem with black paint.. you can really see the imperfections, etc.. but looks nice when you get it right..

To see if your car has clear coat, use your particular megs compound and work the compound in. If your applicator turns black, your car has no clear coat.. And +1 on meguiars carnauba wax (in my case, the deep crystal 3). You'll see how black your car can really be.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

I was looking at colorX and was wondering that since it is not as abrasive as Ultimate Compound, would it not strip away as much paint?

I am a little new to the whole polishing with abrasives concept. For instance, if I were to use Ultimate Compound on my vehicle every month for 10 years, wouldn't the clear coat be stripped down so much that I would need it to be reapplied again?

Depending on how delicate the paint is, ColorX may be all that's needed. In our article The Challenge of Delicate Paint that's what we found to be among the best things for working on very delicate paints that mar very easily. Lexus tends to have very nice paints on their cars though, and they aren't usually super delicate. We had a beautiful SC430 in our garage a while back that responded beautifully to Ultimate Compound followed by M205, both via D/A. This car had a clear coat system but we aren't 100% certain if yours does or not. Lexus does offer a black single stage paint currently, but we aren't positive if it's available on all models or not. Still, it's a modern catalyzed paint, not an old school lacquer finish.

As to your question about using UC every month for 10 years, our answer to that is "if you have to use it every month then you're going something horribly wrong in your maintenance routine". Have a look at this article on how you can maintain a finish for a very long time using Ultimate Quik Detailer and quality microfiber towels.

And next time you go to the dealer, be very clear and emphatic when telling the service manager to please not wash your car, don't apply the Perma whatever, don't touch it! Have him write it on the service order.

Invest in some Ultimate Quik Detailer. It should be called Reflections-In-A-Bottle-For-Black-Lexus. Good for water beading too.

Yes, make UQD your friend. If you want to be really cost effective about it, buy M135 by the gallon and get a spray bottle to use it with. And don't skimp on the microfiber towels.

I remember that Lexus black isn't clear coated so the perma is added.

We aren't so sure there's a direct correlation between the single stage black and application of the perma stuff. That's usually just a nice profit center for the dealer, and we can't really blame them for that.

no clear coar?? oh man.. i can't imagine how fragile the paint is.. and of all colors.. black! Thats the problem with black paint.. you can really see the imperfections, etc.. but looks nice when you get it right..

To see if your car has clear coat, use your particular megs compound and work the compound in. If your applicator turns black, your car has no clear coat.. And +1 on meguiars carnauba wax (in my case, the deep crystal 3). You'll see how black your car can really be.

Good tip on determining if the finish is clear coated or not. But again, just because it lacks clear doesn't necessarily mean the paint is soft or delicate. It could be, but that's not because it lacks a clear coat. Late model Honda Civics and Fits have a clear coat and they are among the most delicate modern paints we've encountered.

[stealth]

Re: What product should I use to get rid of swirl marks on a newish car with a perma

There is no correlation between the black & perma clear other than a cash grab by the dealer as above stated. Having had some experience w/$$$ grabs by dealers & further review of this thread, perhaps it was never applied! Not a conspiracy theory just reality.