Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

[20civic07]

Hi,

I am wondering if it is normal for scratches to still be seen under certain angles of lighting after multiple passes of m105 on an DA? By multiple I mean about 2 or 3 passes on speed 5 on the DA (g110v2). I can still see the scratches but only under an angle. Also wondering about swirls, as I can eliminate most of the swirls, there are some swirling still left behind if looked VERY closely, again using multiple passes of m105. Or am I simply not doing enough passes to see the results that I am seeking? The scratches are not deep scratches, and I cannot feel them on my finger tip.

Thanks in advance.

[20civic07]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

Btw I am using a 3m hookit orange cutting pad but also have used a yellow foam pad by meguiars.

[Murr1525]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

Well, there other factors like how much pressure you are applying, how large of an area are you working, and how fast are you moving the machine?

Also, what are you working on?

[Ryan_Bihun89]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

You need to give us more information about the car your working on.

As murr said, how much pressure are you applying. You must pressure the pad until it begins to deform then keep that pressure. Do small areas at a time.

Then go with M205 as you can read in the label it says is formulated to remove the fine scratches left by M105.

[20civic07]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

I have about 20 or more lbs of pressure on a black pearl hood. I am working on a 2x2 sqr foot of area and have been using m205 after the m105 but the m105 doesn't leave behind new finer scratches.

[Mary S]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

In my experience with a disembodied BMW hood that I test with that is a bit scratched up, I can tell you that there are scratches that can't be removed even by a rotary with a wool cutting pad with 105, and they also can't be removed by a DA using a polishing pad and 105. The only way I was able to remove them was by wet sanding. I could improve the appearance, make the finish shinier and remove some of the scratches, but I couldn't make them go away without wet sanding.

So I think it depends on what shape the paint is in. Sometimes, just using a DA just won't be enough.

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

In my experience with a disembodied BMW hood that I test with that is a bit scratched up, I can tell you that there are scratches that can't be removed even by a rotary with a wool cutting pad with 105, and they also can't be removed by a DA using a polishing pad and 105. The only way I was able to remove them was by wet sanding. I could improve the appearance, make the finish shinier and remove some of the scratches, but I couldn't make them go away without wet sanding.

So I think it depends on what shape the paint is in. Sometimes, just using a DA just won't be enough.

[20civic07]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

What grit sand paper do you use to eliminate the diner scratches? 1500 grit or 2000 grit? I am assuming you wet sand the defect. I don't understand how come the m105 won't eliminate the light scratches, the ones I can't even feel with
my finger!!! I will try a couple more passes on the da before I try wetsanding the sucker( Honda paint clearcoat failure after only 3 years, crows feet!!! I meticulously maintained my car too! So no big deal if I don't succeed in the wetsanding because it's in need of a repaint anyways)

[Mary S]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

What grit sand paper do you use to eliminate the diner scratches? 1500 grit or 2000 grit?

I used 2000 uniformly over an area, but:

CAUTION: Traditionally, wet sanding marks can't be taken out by using a DA either, you generally use a rotary with a wool pad.

I know it has been done with a DA. Maybe someone can give you the link. Mike Phillips did it but he did the wetsanding with a DA too.

If you only have isolated scratches and don't need to do a whole area, you could probably get by with wet sanding just the scratches and take the scratches of the sanding out by using UC or 105 by hand, but do a small inconspicuous test area to make sure you can take those sand marks out that way.

This link will take you to the first of a 5-part video by Meguiars on wet sanding and rotary buffing. This is worthwhile to see the whole 5 parts if you are interested in wet sanding, and it explains about using the rotary versus the DA to do wet sanding. Basically, he does not recommend the DA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f8EQNVxxbw

In general, if you have never used a rotary, you might be best having this done by someone who has, or you may have to live with the amount of correction you got.

If you want to learn the rotary yourself, you will probably want to get a used parts hood to practice on.

[artdiefenbach]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

I agree with Mary S that there are some scratches that cannot be removed with a DA polisher and paint cleaner. Before you go the sanding route, I suggest you try hand polishing. I've had some luck with hand polishing on isolated scratches because you can really target the scratch and give it the specific action appropriate for that scratch. You know, really put the pressure on. M105 is an excellent product for this as it is just about the most aggressive product made by Meguiar's. The Meguiar's foam applicator pads are ok for hand application, but in this case I suggest a more aggressive foam applicator. The Wolfgang Polishin' Pal (available from Autogeek.net) comes with applicator pads in three levels of abrasion.



Anyway, I just think you should give the hand application a quick try before getting out the sandpaper. I don't see how it could hurt anything.

[maximus20895]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

If you have a 2007 NHBP civic like your name says keep in mind that your paint is really soft. I have the same car and it is a pain to keep from not getting scratches in it.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Is it regular for scratches to still be seen after multiple passes of m105?

If you have a 2007 NHBP civic like your name says keep in mind that your paint is really soft. I have the same car and it is a pain to keep from not getting scratches in it.

That's an excellent point. At our last Thursday Night Open Garage we had a 2009 Civic with extremely delicate paint. UC by hand left it badly hazed even as it removed all the swirls. SwirlX by hand cleaned that up pretty well, but by D/A it did wonders. We didn't try M205 on a finishing pad but suspect that it would have left an equally perfect finish, if not a bit better.

We've had a couple of Honda Fits with very delicate paint too, and both were cleared up beautifully with either M66 or D151 - both just strong cleaner waxes.

A couple of years ago we helped someone who was really struggling with very soft paint on his black Mazda MX-5 Miata. He couldn't get a good clear finish no matter what he did, and he kept getting more and more aggressive thinking he had to since he couldn't get rid of all the defects. What he didn't realize at the time was that he kept trading old defects for new. We had him back way down to M205 on a finishing pad via D/A and it cleared everything up right away.

So, 20civic07, if you're working with a cutting pad and M105 on very delicate paint, that's probably your problem. You are hazing and marring the paint rather than correcting it. Try stepping down to the yellow Meguiar's pad you have, and either M205 or SwirlX. Drop the speed of the tool down to 4 and use only moderate pressure, maybe even lightening up toward the end of the buffing cycle.