How does it get to the paint?

[bitwise]

"Meguiar's® Gold Class™ Car Wash Shampoo & Conditioner is a rich and luxurious product designed to both wash and condition paint in one easy step"

If I have NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 on my car when I wash it, how does the Gold Class Car Wash get to the paint to condition it? Likewise, if I use Cleaner Wax on my car will polish do anything for the paint? It is my understanding that wax is supposed to create a barrier between the paint and the surface. So can these products still do what they are supposed to do through the wax? If so, is there any degradation of there effects?

[Murr1525]

Re: How does it get to the paint?

I would expect that more gets to the paint when there is less wax there.

If you are someone that cleans/polishes/waxes often, I am sure that will have a bigger effect than any polishing oils in the wash.

However, for instance, there used to be a pic of a Mercedes on here (it may still be if someone can find it), that was not cared for for years. One wash with Gold Class Soap alone made a dramatic difference.

Now, if you are waxing often, I think you have to be shopping more for the 'gentleness' of the wash, that will remove as little wax as possible. The soaps like Gold Class and #62 certainly count as a very gentle wash as well.

[TOGWT]

Re: How does it get to the paint?

Automotive paint is classified as a semi-permeable membrane and the paint film surface on a microscopic level has many surface imperfections, and is convoluted (a series of peaks and valleys) with time and use, plus normal wear and tear, the surface becomes more permeable, thus allowing ingress.

As to the 'conditioning' of paint this is on a par with 'feeding a paint with oils' modern auto paints do not require oils, especially waterbourne paint.

[bitwise]

Re: How does it get to the paint?

Automotive paint is classified as a semi-permeable membrane and the paint film surface on a microscopic level has many surface imperfections, and is convoluted (a series of peaks and valleys) with time and use, plus normal wear and tear, the surface becomes more permeable, thus allowing ingress.

As to the 'conditioning' of paint this is on a par with 'feeding a paint with oils' modern auto paints do not require oils, especially waterbourne paint.

So, polishing two stage paint is more or less a waste of time?

[TOGWT]

Re: How does it get to the paint?

Polishing oils provides lubrication for the paint surface, polishing also provides 'shine' and an LSP provides protection

[Jossy92]

Re: How does it get to the paint?

Isn't an LSP a sacrificial layer? Hence any crud in the air at 70mph would wear it down and even bond to it?
Hence Gold glass would clean the surface and condition the exposed microscopic moon-scape? Without removing more LSP. Even add oils to the LSP and slow down flashing off?

Uh....Or not?

Experience trumps theory (or the earth would still be flat), so I'll go with the previous posts. But IMO this is a great teaching thread. At least for this newb.39

[Michael Stoops]

Re: How does it get to the paint?

If I have NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 on my car when I wash it, how does the Gold Class Car Wash get to the paint to condition it?

Don't read too much into that - Gold Class Car Wash does not offer the same type of benefits to bare paint as, say, a polish would. What it does do is effectively clean the surface without stripping the wax. That's fine in and of itself, but sort of ho-hum. Lots of car washes do that. Ask anyone who's compared Gold Class to other OTC car washes and they'll tell you it does more than simply clean without stripping; it leaves a nice, slick finish and doesn't have a negative impact on gloss level. In that sense it's conditioning and helping to maintain the finish.

Likewise, if I use Cleaner Wax on my car will polish do anything for the paint? It is my understanding that wax is supposed to create a barrier between the paint and the surface. So can these products still do what they are supposed to do through the wax? If so, is there any degradation of there effects?

As TOGWT points out, paint is not a perfectly flat surface - at the microscopic level it looks like a dry lake bed. Well, sort of. You get the point. Anyway, how does this impact the use of waxes and polishes? Well, an application of either of these products will cause them to be worked into the fine pores of the surface. You won't get 100% uniformity here either, though, so adding a pure polish on top of a wax can have some benefits but it is not the optimal use of such a product.

TOGWT also stated that modern waterbourne paints don't need a pure polish application. Meguiar's has always stated that application of a pure polish is an optional step, and many times it has been stated on this forum that applying a pure polish to a light colored vehicle, or a clear coated vehicle, is not going to give as dramatic a look as doing so on a dark colored, single stage paint. Having said that, we've also seen countless cases of people using pure polishes on brand spanking new factory paint jobs and loving the additional gloss and depth they can provide. Is it necessary to add a pure polish to a modern base coat/clear coat paint system? No. But if you're chasing the maximum result possible, then you're likely to get a positive visual result from it. And isn't that what the "oohs & aahs" generated by all the "Show Off" posts on detailing forums all about?

If you have a cleaner wax and a pure polish in your possession, do a simple test. Tape off two small sections on the hood and apply the cleaner wax to both. Apply a pure polish to just one of the sections. Now pull off the tape and pull the car out into the sunlight. If you notice a deeper, darker appearance on the side with the pure polish, then you have something to gain - even if only visually - from using the pure polish. Is it enough of a difference to warrant you doing the entire vehicle? That's up to you to decide, just remember that if you do go that route you will need to apply a pure wax (ie, non cleaner wax) on top of the polish or it won't last long at all. M26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax, NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 and Deep Crystal Carnauba are excellent choices for this application.

Remember, at the end of the day it's your money, your time, your car, your opinion that matters.