Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

For what it's worth... whenever we've done any testing where we have bare/clean paint, (no wax or anything on the surface), and then we tape off a section and apply a wax or paint sealant, (ours or any brand), the areas with product on them attract more dust than the bare unprotected paint.

Could be that the rubbing action from removing the dried wax created a higher static charge in the paint?

Don't know, but do know that we want the paint protected and to look good so we always apply wax to our paint regardless of what we've seen with dusting.

[Jesstzn]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

This has worked for me .. once your done waxing mist a M/F towel with water ( I use distilled ) and wipe the car. Seems to break the static.

[Maruzo]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I applied 2 layers of nxt 2.0 paste over the weekend. I would like to put on a third coat of wax. I'm thinking of using the liquid carnauba wax from Meguiar's Deep Crystal line. Since this is a pure wax it should stay on without rubbing off too much of the nxt sealant. Anyone think this is a good/ bad idea?

[Murr1525]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

It would work fine.

Not sure if DC Wax would look any better or not... but can do a test spot to see.

[zbestwun2001]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I have asked this in another thread but I think this is the appropriate one. It's about NXT 2.0 and rather than start a new thread I'd thought I'd just ask it here.

Quick question: I've been waxing monthly with NXT 2.0. Today I was looking at the car when the sun was hitting it and noticed a slight greasy (for lack of a better word.) film on the hood. The type when you run your finger over it, it leaves a line. When I wiped it a bit more it seem to be lessened. I did clean it first with UD.

I use this wax sparingly and wipe it off thoroughly with a MF towel. I am thinking what I am seeing is the thin covering of wax that I just applied. Yes?
Or didn't I remove it all or was it suppose to be absorbed into the paint?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

What you're seeing could be a number of things. If you had just finished waxing the car it could be that the polymers just haven't quite set up yet; this can give a bit of a smearing look if you wipe a towel over the surface at first, but within 12 - 24 hours the polymers will fully crosslink and bond and this ability to smear the surface will go away.

It could also be a quick detail spray you're using. Though this is rare, it is a very weird phenomenon when it does happen. We've seen it on a black car where you could literally run your fingers across the surface and see a trail left behind by them. But a few minutes the trails had disappeared and the "film" looked completely uniform again. The car owner had tried every single mist and wipe product we make and all but M34 Final Inspection seemed to cause this film. What's so weird about it is that we've seen countless users put any number of quick detailers over NXT and never have a problem. Not even a hint of a problem. Yet, there it was, this one car (a black Toyota Camry Hybrid, not that it should matter) with this persistent film on the surface.

[zbestwun2001]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Thanks Michael...

[Blue Apollo IV]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I still think that layering is a huge myth. I would like to see a measurement of the actual wax being built up on the paint surface...that's the only way I'd ever believe that "layering" is actually possible.

[wifpd4]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Blue, you can perform this test. Properly prepare a 12x12 area and put a coat of wax down. Allow it to cure for 12 hours. Then put a couple of side by side, slightly overlapping runs of tape bisecting the area. (use "EdgeBlock" sensitive surface tape) Place another coat of wax down on one side slightly over lapping the tape. Remove the tape after a full 12 hour cure.

Now get into position to run one of your finger tips over the intersection of the single and double coat of wax. Put on a set of headphones with no music or use hearing protection ear plugs and have someone turn off the lights. Your total concentration should be on the tactile sensation at your finger tip. Rub it slowly over the 2 wax-1 wax edge. You should feel the edge. If you remove the hearing protection and the room is quiet, you can hear the difference of the two areas as they will resonate differently under your finger tip.

If not, rent a scanning electron microscope and you can then see one molecule of wax on top of another. If thicker than that, you may be measuring a smear or streak. If thinner, the second coat of wax removed the first.



(sorry, halftime of the football game)

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Getting a bit zen there, eh David???


The only investigation into this that I, personally, have ever seen was done a couple of years ago over at the British detailing forum. Two threads there make for an interesting read:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=127943

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=130901

The gentleman who started the threads and did the work has access to film thickness measuring equipment at work - they do this sort of thing all the time. The results are pretty interesting, especially since he uses a variety of products in a variety of ways with pretty consistent results.

[wifpd4]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Mike, You didn't find determining thickness by sound resonance scientific enough?

Thanks for the threads. Extremely interesting. Including this paragraph

Something still not clear for me here is the density of the wax layer, do multiple coats perhaps change the density of the wax layer but not the thickness, this would start to go some way to explaining the changes in looks some are claiming to see - but then again, are there really differences or simply psychological effects. One thing's for sure and thats the effect is so small, its hard to differentiate between the two!

The density of the base layer modified by the second layer....interesting.

[davey g-force]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

^^ What a great read - thanks for the links Mike!

[umi000]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Mike, You didn't find determining thickness by sound resonance scientific enough? Thanks for the threads. Extremely interesting. Including this paragraphThe density of the base layer modified by the second layer....interesting.

The density doesn't change - the technique used would also detect any changes in density, as stated here:

The additional buffing doesn't "compress" the wax, I am pretty sure about that, because it would change the refractive index and I would see that in the measurements.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Mike, You didn't find determining thickness by sound resonance scientific enough?

Oh, it could be quite entertaining, and maybe even informative. Perhaps we could, through acoustic analysis, determine the natural resonant frequency of a panel coated with various waxes/sealants and how those waxes alter the NRF. That could help others determine the best wax for their car depending on the ambient acoustics of their environment. For example, a car used in mid town Manhattan will have to fight off not only winter snow and salt, but also the extreme reverberation effects of city noise bouncing off all the hard surfaces of the buildings. A vehicle used in a less noisy environment, such as rural Illinois or Kansas, might benefit from a wax with very different acoustic tendencies. Or it could be that I just haven't had enough coffee this morning.

The density of the base layer modified by the second layer....interesting.

An interesting theory, but..........

The density doesn't change - the technique used would also detect any changes in density, as stated here:

....given how polymer sealants cross link it's doubtful that a change in density would occur. There would have to be almost some sort of break down of the polymer chain linking and an insertion of additional material into those existing chains. From what little chemistry background I have, I highly doubt this would happen merely by wiping an additional amount of unlinked product on to an existing linked and cured application. I just don't see the chemistry allowing for this to happen without some additional, and fairly extreme, force - some extreme compression in a laboratory environment perhaps, but even then I kind of doubt it. See, coffee does help!

[ffboy]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I would layer a wax for peace of mind because it does mean you can go over areas that may have been missed. Even cleaner waxes.... I would take my time with NXT 2.0 though to make sure it has cured sufficiently.