Need Beginner Help

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need Beginner Help

It seems to me that if you allow any length of time to pass between applications of a pure wax, a fairly sizeable portion of the previous coat will be gone before you apply subsequent coats. Pure waxes just don't last that long, so I seriously doubt 15 applications means 15 coats.

Plus, after a couple years of doing this I just can't imagine anyone's technique is good enough to completely prevent swirls from happening.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Need Beginner Help

That's interesting. I've always found that up to a certain point your shine will improve each time you wax.

Actually, if you do everything right, you, or more accurate would be to say "your paint" will reach a plateau, that is it will be at 100% of it's maximum potential to look beautiful, that is clear, rich in color, glossy, reflective swirl-free etc.

At this point, adding more and more wax will not keep making the paint look better and better because you've reached a plateau. Now it's time to stand back and admire the results and drive the car. As you drive the car, wear and tear will begin to diminish this plateau. You can then re-wash and re-wax and restore the paint to this plateau.

It's like glass, once you clean glass to make it 100% clear, cleaning more and more will not make it 101% clear.

There's a thread in Hot Topics on the topic of Layering that addresses this in detail, no pun intended...

[frustrateddetailer]

Re: Need Beginner Help

I DO appreciate the advice man I'm not looking for a 1 step procedure though. I've used cleaners before although not Meguiars and they tend to strip wax and that's not what I'm after unless things really go to **** and I have no choice and that won't be happening. So it's between say DC#1 and clay. I'm thinking clay here mostly because the contaminants are going to be pretty close to the surface and I'm thinking now that that might be the gentler way - you tell me though.

cleaner wax is used to remove SOME swirls and scratches from surface of the car. it is also used to remove contaminants BELOW the surface paint, one that has penetrated because of negligence. waxing without this cleaning step will not adhere the wax to the car properly. although you will see sime swirls are gone, this is just FILLING UP the scrathes and swirls, not removing them.

claying on the other hand will remove ABOVE the surface contaminants like overspray. this will not fill up the scrathes or remove them in any way. it will only clean and make you're paint prepared for polishing & waxing.

both are the same cleaning/preping product of meguiars but with different agenda. both can be used at the same time and it is recommended and it will work perfectly. now it is up to you what are you going to do. i hope my answer helped you in anyway.

[STG]

Re: Need Beginner Help

Here's a guess:

Perhaps your 15 wax applications approximated a more "correct" technique of claying, cleaning/polishing and then waxing.

When applying wax, pressure is used on the applicator pad against the paint surface. Depending on your application technique, you may be applying enough pressure and friction to smooth the surface of the paint slightly during each application.

Even if this is the case, I seem to recall a thread wherein Mike Phillips addresses the question of the benefits of additional layers of wax.

You may perceive extra shine after each of your 15 coats of wax, but it is most likely the result of bringing the shine back to where it was one week or one month ago. Unfortunately, waxing unprepped paint is not the way to obtain the best shine.

THERE IS NO WAY TO REMOVE CONTAMINANTS WITHOUT REMOVING WAX. If your paint has bonded contaminants, you applied wax OVER THEM. Getting rid of the contaminants under the wax without removing the wax would be one hell of a trick.

Again, you need to understand that maximum shine is obtained only with the clearest, cleanest and smoothest (most level) paint. 15 coats of wax will not come close to the shine obtained by claying, cleaning/polishing, and one coat of wax.

[cherrycougar]

Re: Need Beginner Help

With all due respect, you have no idea how good the paint can look on your car unless it is properly maintained. Claying removes wax, but waxing over a period of weeks or months does not "build up" the finish on your car. A second coat of wax may improve the shine, but that's primarily due to better coverage, not because there is more wax on the car. In fact, the process of adding an extra coat of wax disturbs and at least partially removes the underlying coat.

I own a 2004 Mach1 that is a week-end driver. I keep this car spottless, washing it and or quick detailing it after every drive. It spends winter inside a heated and insulated garage. Although I may wax the Mach1 without claying or cleaning/polishing the paint I only do so if it is completely free of contaminants. It gets clayed whenever required. And that's been at least twice a year.

For maximum shine, the paint has to be free of contaminants (clayed), and imperfection free. Swirls or scratches have to removed by applying an abrasive.

A perfect finish is built on SURFACE PREPARATION, not by layering multiple coats of wax. There are no shortcuts. Follow the required steps and see what you have been missing.

That's interesting. I've always found that up to a certain point your shine will improve each time you wax. This will vary depending on the product and with the stuff I've used from Meguiars it just keeps getting better for many many waxings. This of course will only happen if you just wax. Now I admit I'm a newbie when it comes to these preparation steps other than applying a cleaner and you're taking off visible **** and sure it's going to be better.

Claying a couple of times a year may indeed be a good idea for my car although it's not something I've ever tried and I'm soliciting the experiences of others like yourself here. However the fact that it took 15 or more waxings to get my car to where it is now is the reason why I am a bit concerned about using the least stripping approach to removing contaminants.

[cherrycougar]

Re: Need Beginner Help

whatever suits you the best man. im just recommending. it's your car anyway. and if you want a 1 step procedure, i'd recommend you #66 or the A-line cleaner wax.

I DO appreciate the advice man I'm not looking for a 1 step procedure though. I've used cleaners before although not Meguiars and they tend to strip wax and that's not what I'm after unless things really go to **** and I have no choice and that won't be happening. So it's between say DC#1 and clay. I'm thinking clay here mostly because the contaminants are going to be pretty close to the surface and I'm thinking now that that might be the gentler way - you tell me though.

[STG]

Re: Need Beginner Help

I don't really need steps 1 and 2 right now but the time will come when it's probably a good idea. What worries me is that I've built up a finish on my car that's taken a long time to develop - you folks that think a wax every few months or whatever and it's still beading so you're good are missing a LOT. Anyway I don't want to be back at square 1 with many hours and mucho bucks wasted when I need to clay or use a paint cleaner. How much of the shine is this stuff going to take off in addition to the surface contaminants or whatever? What's the best product to use to keep this stuff to a minimum while still getting the job done?

With all due respect, you have no idea how good the paint can look on your car unless it is properly maintained. Claying removes wax, but waxing over a period of weeks or months does not "build up" the finish on your car. A second coat of wax may improve the shine, but that's primarily due to better coverage, not because there is more wax on the car. In fact, the process of adding an extra coat of wax disturbs and at least partially removes the underlying coat.

I own a 2004 Mach1 that is a week-end driver. I keep this car spottless, washing it and or quick detailing it after every drive. It spends winter inside a heated and insulated garage. Although I may wax the Mach1 without claying or cleaning/polishing the paint I only do so if it is completely free of contaminants. It gets clayed whenever required. And that's been at least twice a year.

For maximum shine, the paint has to be free of contaminants (clayed), and imperfection free. Swirls or scratches have to removed by applying an abrasive.

A perfect finish is built on SURFACE PREPARATION, not by layering multiple coats of wax. There are no shortcuts. Follow the required steps and see what you have been missing.

[frustrateddetailer]

Re: Need Beginner Help

OK well I guess the clay would be the way to go for what I'm looking for once the surface gets a little rough. From what I assumed already and what you're saying, DC (and Scratch X of course) is going to strip off the wax I've built up, but what about the clay? What I don't want is to remove both the stuff I want (contaminants) and the shine as well or at least a good part of it, since I've waxed my current car a couple dozen times and it's got better each time and I don't want to have to start all over again and take several months to get to where I am now again.

whatever suits you the best man. im just recommending. it's your car anyway. and if you want a 1 step procedure, i'd recommend you #66 or the A-line cleaner wax.

[cherrycougar]

Re: Need Beginner Help

OK well I guess the clay would be the way to go for what I'm looking for once the surface gets a little rough. From what I assumed already and what you're saying, DC (and Scratch X of course) is going to strip off the wax I've built up, but what about the clay? What I don't want is to remove both the stuff I want (contaminants) and the shine as well or at least a good part of it, since I've waxed my current car a couple dozen times and it's got better each time and I don't want to have to start all over again and take several months to get to where I am now again.

[frustrateddetailer]

Re: Need Beginner Help

Hmm, I can say the paint quality is pretty good.

So if I just wash and wax, it will be alright? What is this clay method you speak of?

clay is cleaning the paint for above the surface contaminants. DC#1 & scratch X are used for below the paint defects. if you want your wax to be a long lasting one, do the both process.

[cherrycougar]

Re: Need Beginner Help

I don't really need steps 1 and 2 right now but the time will come when it's probably a good idea. What worries me is that I've built up a finish on my car that's taken a long time to develop - you folks that think a wax every few months or whatever and it's still beading so you're good are missing a LOT. Anyway I don't want to be back at square 1 with many hours and mucho bucks wasted when I need to clay or use a paint cleaner. How much of the shine is this stuff going to take off in addition to the surface contaminants or whatever? What's the best product to use to keep this stuff to a minimum while still getting the job done?

[Strafe]

Re: Need Beginner Help

It depends on the condition of the paint, if it's been neglected at all and you only want to use one product then you should use a cleaner/wax like Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax or ColorX, if it's in pretty good shape, then you can use a product like the NXT Tech Wax. Always feel the paint with you clean hand after washing however to see if the paint needs to be clayed because if you above surface bonded contaminants these will hinder the wax from adhering to the paint no matter which wax you use.

Good luck!

Hmm, I can say the paint quality is pretty good.

So if I just wash and wax, it will be alright? What is this clay method you speak of?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Need Beginner Help

Hey there! Nice to see fellow Filipinos around here. I am from Cebu City.

Anyways, I am kinda busy sometimes and might not be able to do long processes. What exactly is prep and how long does it take to do that? What materials are involved in it?

If I just do a simpler method of wash -> dry -> NXT wax would it have acceptable results?

Also, how long does it take for the wax to last until it becomes dirty again? How often will I be rewashing my car?

It depends on the condition of the paint, if it's been neglected at all and you only want to use one product then you should use a cleaner/wax like Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax or ColorX, if it's in pretty good shape, then you can use a product like the NXT Tech Wax. Always feel the paint with you clean hand after washing however to see if the paint needs to be clayed because if you above surface bonded contaminants these will hinder the wax from adhering to the paint no matter which wax you use.

Good luck!

[Strafe]

Re: Need Beginner Help

hey man! im from philippines too! where you from?

anyway, NXT tech wax has a little bit of cleaners on them so you can apply it after you wash & dry your car. but if you're a car crazy like me, i recommend you follow the 5 steps of car care system.

1. wash
2. prep
3. polish
4. wax
5. maintain

Hey there! Nice to see fellow Filipinos around here. I am from Cebu City.

Anyways, I am kinda busy sometimes and might not be able to do long processes. What exactly is prep and how long does it take to do that? What materials are involved in it?

If I just do a simpler method of wash -> dry -> NXT wax would it have acceptable results?

Also, how long does it take for the wax to last until it becomes dirty again? How often will I be rewashing my car?

[Murr1525]

Re: Need Beginner Help

Here are a few other links to help out:

Suggested Products for Taking Care of a New Car

Circles or Straight Lines?

How to tell when a Meguiar's wax is ready to remove - The Swipe Test

What it Means to Remove a Scratch

How To Remove Swirls By Hand

How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX

As far as proper steps, as frustrated says, prep is important. The wax will look ok and protect ok on its own, but to really makes things great, at least a little prep work is needed.

You can either do the 5-step process outlined above, with the clay, Deep Crystal Cleaner and Deep Crystal Polish, or if you want to speed things up a little (with a little sacrifice in looks), you can use ColorX to prep the paint. Here is a link of ColorX is action:

1986 Ford Bronco II - Extreme Makeover

So, 2 basic processes you can choose from would look like this:

1. Wash - Gold Class or Nxt car wash, and the 2 bucket system.
2. Clay - Quick Clay or Smooth Surface clay kit.
3. Clean - Deep Crystal #1
4. Polish - Deep Crystal #2
5. Wax - Nxt Wax
6. Wax - Remember, 2 coats are best.

Or:

1. Wash - as above
2. Clay - as above
3. ColorX (might be Color Boost in your part of the world)
4. Wax - Nxt

Hope that starts you off.. or ask asway some more