Ultimate Compound and M105

[Top Gear]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

...Have you tried a less agressive combo after UC? I would try that just for peace of mind that you're not creating new marring...Otherwise, if as you say your paint is very hard and UC is not strong enough, you'll need to step up to either M105 or perhaps the DAMF system.

Well, first off, full disclosure, I totally goofed above. The pictures are of a panel that was not compounded at all, and I forgot that little detail (it was a year ago). Sorry for that. I remember now I was testing different "aggressions", so the pictures above show only the results of a wash, clay, UP (yellow pad), GC (beige pad).

However, on panels that were compounded (the front clip), swirls remained, though reduced. On a fender I worked pretty hard in order to hide a big scratch (see the details in my first correction thread), I believe there were little or no swirls left, but it sure took a lot of passes. Also, that test I did more recently on a plastic hind quarter panel was frustrating. The long (non-spiderweb) swirls remained (probably created by the dealer prep before purchase).

I'm thinking that even getting more aggressive that day, I still wasn't aggressive enough. Guess I'm just n00b and paranoid about the compounding step, due to bad experiences before with other cars and crappy (non-Meg's) products. So...I should at least get some M105 and test it out, for cryin' out loud

...But once I saw it in the sun boy was I wrong...

Right, that's really all I'm talking about here. In most situations the paint looks "correct", sick perfect to most people, but the Sun reveals all the swirls and holograms. I've even backed off my "don't wash, quik detail instead" mantra just a bit, two-bucket washing a bit more often, because of the dirty residue build-up resulting in rag holograms from too much quik detailer and quik wax, and the extra wiping to smooth those out.

[The Guz]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

I would try using UP or M205 as stated. If it cleans up then that's great. If not then I would actually just go to the MF cutting pads.

Here's my little story:

I was in a similar situation with my dad's 02 Camaro. I went straight to a compound because this car had never been compounded or properly detailed prior to my dad owning it. I don't even think it was ever waxed. So I gave UC a shot on a foam cutting pad and I thought I was marring the finish. UP would not remove themas well. So I stepped up to M105 on a foam cutting pad followed by M205 and that still didn't so anything. So I went with the MF cutting pad and D300. Now that did the job and cut through the hard clear like it was butter. It was actually LSP after but I still went over the car with M205. His car is navy blue so I was able to see the correction.

I also have an 02 Camaro that I cleaned up before I did my dads. I had never compounded it either. It got the occasional clay and cleaner wax. Mine is white so I thought M105/M205 on foam did the job. But once I saw it in the sun boy was I wrong. I just actullay went over it again with the MF cutting pad and D300. I used M105 on the MF cutting pad that already had D300 on areas where I needed more correction than D300 could offer. Followed up with M205 just to refine the finish even though D300 finshed LSP ready. It is not perfect but it's about 95% defect free.

[davey g-force]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

we're not really disagreeing.

lol

Have you tried a less agressive combo after UC? I would try that just for peace of mind that you're not creating new marring.

Otherwise, if as you say your paint is very hard and UC is not strong enough, you'll need to step up to either M105 or perhaps the DAMF system.

[Top Gear]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

Didn't mean to start a war I think you're both right, depending on the circumstances, so we're not really disagreeing.

Remember, the first picture I posted is pre-DA, before I ever did anything whatsoever to the car other than hand-washing and (then) hand-waxing. The second picture is after a proper wash, a clay with Meg's main line detailer, then the DA steps. The panel shown was probably compounded in two "applications" of 20+ pattern passes per Meg's videos.

So, yes, UC on a cutting foam DA pad can do damage on soft paint or if dirty. But I can report that the pads were clean (brand new in the case of the pictures), and I could see the swirls fading away as I worked. They just didn't fade away enough, and I was probably too n00b to get properly aggressive, or UC is just too mild, and thus requires too many "applications" and passes. As I said, more recently I did a test panel and put some mojo on it, but it made no difference. So, the paint is crazy hard, and I probably should try M105.

Just had to reason that out with your help

[davey g-force]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

Polishing with a strong compound such as UC / M105 and an agressive pad such as the burgundy pad will marr some paints, no matter how clean you work.

[Detailing by M]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

...... The prospect that the UC/cutting pad might be creating more swirls.. if this is how some swirls are happening, using M105 would be a mistake......

This is not crating the swirls, and if the way YOUR doing it is creating swirls, then your pad is dirty, very dirty.

Polishing with 105 doesn't create swirls, dirt does, as in washing a dirty car with a dirty mit and dirty water.

[davey g-force]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

I think the answers were basically the same.

I said it's probably the UC + burgundy pad combo thats causing the swirls.

Others said that too but also said it's no problem, because you can clean them up with a less agressive combo. So go ahead and try one of the less agressive combos suggested and see what that does.

If you're successful, the NEXT time you need to polish (say in a year or two) you should start with a less agressive combination. You may find it cleans up any defects without creating swirls / marring of its own.

[Top Gear]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

Well, I'm more confused, hearing several different answers

The prospect that the UC/cutting pad might be creating more swirls is exactly why I've tended to baby this step, just satisfying myself with easier defect correction without getting too aggressive. If this is how some swirls are happening, using M105 would be a mistake. On the other hand, if the other guys are right, then the only way to remove the swirls is with M105 or getting more aggressive. So...???

Meanwhile, it's no exaggeration to say I've gotten more temporary swirl-hiding results from GC Quik Detailer on top of the wax than swirl-correction from UC underneath. I've also seen more wow results from UP. So, my question remains, am I doing damage with UC/cutting pad or not enough?

[Christopher.Brown]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

When removing defects with a compound and a cutting pad, do that first then worry about the marring, holograms and the like after.

After the defects are gone the you move on to polishing and creating the shine.

Use the burgundy pad and 105 to remove the defects then come back with a yellow pad and 205 to polish. If you still want more shine then use the tan pad last to jewel the paint

definite TRUISM HERE....

The First Step, and primary objective for any paint correction, is to level the clear coat [AFTER surface decontamination of course] evenly across the working section. This, in itself, is THE major step in restoring clarity and gloss in the paint because the hundreds and hundreds of visible and near non visible scratches refract the light hitting the panel causing it to cloud the reflective properties of the panel.

Basically this step is similar to tilling hard ground for a garden. You do this to even the surface and ready it for refinement.

Polishing can be defined as the step(s) which lead to the finished product. They trade the larger scratches of compounding for finer ones, until finally, there are no more scratches and the surface is CLEAR and GLOSSY.

So i completely agree with removing the majority of surface defects [As Mario said] before worrying about marring, because it will happen---- especially on softer paints when using an aggressive combination of pad and product.

►► That being said, IF I CAN REDUCE/MINIMIZE MARRING [which 10/9 -- and yes i said 10/9--- results from a dirty pad] I will. But If i know I am dealing with a jet black vehicle that has 1-2 years of the dreaded automated car washes then i wont pay it any attention because looking it wrong could potentially cause marring...

Basically i only really focus on minimizing marring during compounding when the level of defects is low [e.g. 1-step] and I know that the combination of say, M100 and a foam pad can leave damn good results.

[The Guz]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

Give the burgundy pad and M105 a shot. You can use M205 or UP to refine the finish. If they are still there then go with the MF pad and D300. Then follow up with M205 on a polishing pad. I would also recommend using 5.5" pads as the porter cable works best with 5.5" pads.

[Detailing by M]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

When removing defects with a compound and a cutting pad, do that first then worry about the marring, holograms and the like after.

After the defects are gone the you move on to polishing and creating the shine.

Use the burgundy pad and 105 to remove the defects then come back with a yellow pad and 205 to polish. If you still want more shine then use the tan pad last to jewel the paint

[davey g-force]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

Great comments, and I have questions. While I've learned a LOT about detailing since joining MOL, the DA compounding step is still at the outer edge of my comfort zone

Here's a typical example from my first correction showing the problem I have: Hard paint webs/swirls.



The paint is Hyundai/Genesis "Becketts Black", basic black with pearl and metallic (see the reddish dots in the lower part of the shots). I've learned this paint is just crazy hard (other panels do not correct as well as these shots indicate). My other car's paint is Toyota "Impulse Red Pearl" with its own issues (typical Toyota/Honda clearcoat failure), but otherwise seems softer and much easier to correct.

I'm using a Porter Cable DA, a set of three Mirror Glaze Soft Buff 6.5" foam pads (burgundy, yellow, beige), and the yellow/black backing plate. Thus, for compounding I'm using the burgundy cutting pad with UC or ScratchX, usually on speed 3.5 or 4 (of 6). I'm using the recommended amount of product, etc, etc.

However, as a DA newbie working my own cars I've babied it, but in a recent test panel I got more aggressive and used speeds 4 and 5, harder pressure, and 5-10 applications. By "application", I mean working a small area with many pattern passes (per the meg's videos) with wet product, then cleaning away the quickly-drying product with an MF and detailer to start again. After many "applications" like this, I've found that the spiderwebs may have been reduced only by about half, even after the area is finished with UP and Gold Class Liquid steps.

So, let's keep this to using the tools I have (PC DA, foam pads). Should I try M105 or M95 on my burgundy foam DA pad, or just use a more aggressive technique to get "perfection"?? Am I just putting spiderwebs right back as I'm cleaning the product off??

I actually have a feeling the combination of UC + burgundy pad is creating marring / swirls of its own.

Before you get more agressive, try going the other way -- UC + yellow pad with moderate pressure, or even ScratchX + yellow pad with moderate pressure. See what that does for you...

[Top Gear]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

Great comments, and I have questions. While I've learned a LOT about detailing since joining MOL, the DA compounding step is still at the outer edge of my comfort zone

Here's a typical example from my first correction showing the problem I have: Hard paint webs/swirls.



The paint is Hyundai/Genesis "Becketts Black", basic black with pearl and metallic (see the reddish dots in the lower part of the shots). I've learned this paint is just crazy hard (other panels do not correct as well as these shots indicate). My other car's paint is Toyota "Impulse Red Pearl" with its own issues (typical Toyota/Honda clearcoat failure), but otherwise seems softer and much easier to correct.

I'm using a Porter Cable DA, a set of three Mirror Glaze Soft Buff 6.5" foam pads (burgundy, yellow, beige), and the yellow/black backing plate. Thus, for compounding I'm using the burgundy cutting pad with UC or ScratchX, usually on speed 3.5 or 4 (of 6). I'm using the recommended amount of product, etc, etc.

However, as a DA newbie working my own cars I've babied it, but in a recent test panel I got more aggressive and used speeds 4 and 5, harder pressure, and 5-10 applications. By "application", I mean working a small area with many pattern passes (per the meg's videos) with wet product, then cleaning away the quickly-drying product with an MF and detailer to start again. After many "applications" like this, I've found that the spiderwebs may have been reduced only by about half, even after the area is finished with UP and Gold Class Liquid steps.

So, let's keep this to using the tools I have (PC DA, foam pads). Should I try M105 or M95 on my burgundy foam DA pad, or just use a more aggressive technique to get "perfection"?? Am I just putting spiderwebs right back as I'm cleaning the product off??

[davey g-force]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

Well I had success removing the water spots! I used Ultimate Compound and they came off by hand and using a LC white pad. I also ordered a LC tangerine pad and it worked with my M205!

Great to see the UC worked out for you

[Detailing by M]

Re: Ultimate Compound and M105

Mario,

How are you working the WSRP on paint? I've had some horizontal panels that just look like a mine field... for lack of a better term.

The WSRP is really 'runny' to start and dries in a 'heart beat'. Curious to your method.

I've used it on glass (worked GREAT.) The bottle sure allows a bunch to come out though... gotta take it easy with the bottle!

Many thanks,
-Dellinger

here is my write up using WSRP
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?59825-Water-Spots-Ink-Marks-and-a-Melted-Sucker-No-Problem&highlight=melted+candy