Can all swirls be removed on Black?

[Jetskied]

I was just wondering if I can get any tips on what appears to be cobwebs on a black 1997 Mercedes. I have used the G-100 with a Lake Country orange pad and M-83. I followed with M-9 and a polishing pad. Then hand applied GC. The car shines real nice and looks like there is no swirls, until you put in under direct sun light or bright flourescent lights you can see it. I was wondering is it just the nature of black, or I really need to have it done by a professional with a rotary. It looks good, but I just guess I'm being picky that the swirls are in the back ground.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Jetskied,

First, it's not the nature of black paint specifically, because chances are very high that you're working on a clear coat. It's the nature of all paint. If you do all the same steps to a clear coated white car in the same condition, you may not see any swirls, but that's because white and light colored paints don't show defects as easy as black and dark colored paints.

You can achieve a flawless, swirl free finish, but as you touch the car, (washing it primarily), the tendency is for the finest of swirls that you have eliminated with a coating of wax will show back up again as the wax is worn off.

Deep swirls and scratches can be removed, at the microscopic level there will always be something in the finish because under a microscope, the paint isn't completely smooth and flat to start with.

I don't use Lake Country pads, so I'm not sure how aggressive their orange foam pad is, but we have had very good luck at producing swirl free, flawless finishes using our W-8006 foam polishing pads with our cleaner/polishes followed with an application of a wax like Tech Wax.

[Mike Phillips]

Check out this thread and many of the thread in the Detail Day's at Meguiar's Forum where we post these kinds of pictures.

From swirls to swirl free

First up in Meguiar's Garage was this black Miata in dire need of some special attention. First we wiped the finish down with some Meguiar's Quik Detailer to remove any light dust. After that, we backed the car out of the garage so that everyone present could inspect the finish and see first hand in bright sunlight just exactly the present condition of the paint.





The above photo was resized to 600 pixels wide, the below photo is a 650 pixel cropped section taken from the original.




After everyone had a chance to get a good solid look at the condition of this car's finish, we brought the car back inside for to demonstrate how to restore a show car finish with

Products Used
Quik Clay System
G-100a
W-8006 foam polishing pad
W-9006 foam finishing pad
#80 Speed Glaze
Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax
Ultimate Wipe
Ultimate Bonnet

First we taped off one half of the hood.



Then we clayed this half with Meguiar's Quik Clay System,



After claying the finish we applied Meguiar's #80 Speed Glaze on a W-8006 with the G-100 on the 5.0 setting. Many Miatas have single stage paints except the metallic finishes which are clear coated. My experience working with single stage paint has taught me that you need to be extra careful around the edges and the high points because typically, not always, but typically will be softer than most factor clear coat finishes so it's important whenever you do any cleaning processes with a paint cleaner or a cleaner/polish.

Also note that often times black single stage paints are some of the softest paint their are because the pigment for black paint is carbon black and this is a soft material, so it makes the resin into which it is blended into soft also.

Knowing all of this, I knew that it shouldn't take a real aggressive product to remove the defects, thus the reason we chose the Speed Glaze over a more aggressive product.




After thoroughly but carefully machine polishing the paint withe the Speed Glaze, we applied a coat of NXT Tech Wax with a W-9006 foam finishing pad on the G-100.




After allowing the NXT Tech Wax to dry for approximately 15 minutes, we removed it using a Meguiar's microfiber Ultimate Bonnet. We placed the bonnet over a clean, dry W-8006 foam pad.



Then we set the G-100's variable speed setting to 4.5 on the dial and removed the dried layer of wax.



Using the G-100 dual action polisher competely took all of the work out of removing the swirls and restoring a show car shine.

Then we removed the tape and the cotton towels shielding the passenger side from the hood and the owner drove the car out of the garage so everyone could see the results outdoors in the bright sun. You can actually already see how the driver's side is more clear and richer.




Ready for inspection




Here are the results,









I think it is safe to say, everyone was blown away!

[Jetskied]

Thanks Mike,
The orange pad is consider a light cutting pad which is suppose to have more bit than your polishing pad, but way less agressive compared to your cutting pad. The thing is the car actually looks swirl free, but when its under the direct light you can see the swirls. They are not that cobwebby, but more like circular swirlls from doing Mr. Miagi wax on wax off. I have gone over one area twice and it seems not to show too much improvement. Could it be that these swirls are so deep in the clear that it just won't come out unless it was color sanded or hit with a rotoary?

[Mike Phillips]

If the remaining swirls you're seeing are deeper swirls, then a rotary could do the job, or more time spent with the M83.

I would also suggest using some M80 Speed Glaze in place of the M09 as it offers more bite and if these swirls are light swirls, it could be that the M09 isn't getting them out.

Also try the W-8006 foam polishing pad, it's the workhorse of the industry.

[Jetskied]

Mike,
The car in question started out looking like the Miata, but now it looks close to what the Miata looks like now. I would say its half way to 3/4 of the way to looking swirl free. It just has large circular swirls that you can see. It reflects clouds and tree in the finsh well. I guess its the clear is just so hard that removing it will take some heavy duty stuff like a rotary and some medium cut stuff. I guess I'll either live with it or see a detail shop about it. Just curious does the NXT sealant cover up swirls well or that the M80 just does that great of a job?

[Jetskied]

Update

Well I finally decide to give a try with a rotary so to speak. I have this old Craftsman 6in sander which has a funny treaded shaft that does not accept standard rotary backing plates. I found a Norton velcro stick-um at Home Depot that converts 5 in orbital sanders to velcro sand paper and stuck it on the backing plate. The sander has two speeds 1400 and 1800 rpms. I used my orange pad with #83 and gave it a go. Then I followed with #9 and a PC. Finally I got 98% of them gone. I sure wished I took a before picture, but once I started I did not want to stop to take pictures.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Update

Originally posted by Jetskied
I sure wished I took a before picture, but once I started I did not want to stop to take pictures.

Isn't that always the case!

[JeffM]

You need one of those "No Fear" stickers lol

[Superior Shine]

Is there anybody else COOLER than Mike with a G100 in one hand and the other in his pocket?




Follow Mikes instructons and this is what you get ------

[xjdmb16a2six]

whoa the results from the miata is niceeeee. just wondering have that miata ever been detailed??? my mom car have similar swirls to the miata. but the paint is pretty hard. and like its been parked outside of couple of months now and it has never been waxed. would #80 with a cutting pad remove the swirls? or would i need to use #83? also would i get similar results using #26 paste instead of NXT???