Using #80, #83 Before NXT ?

[EdT]

Should I, I heard #80 and #83 contained polishing oils and should not to be used with NXT with potential bonding problems, is that true ? should I just use #82 instead before NXTing ?

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

That seems to be a popular question lately:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4831

Meguiar's products work together as a system. As such, there will be no problem at all with using the #80, #83 etc and topping with NXT. If a person mixes and matches other brands of product, then bonding may become an issue. Hence the reason why I prefer to work within a system. But with that said, I have used S100 SEPC etc before using NXT and still had no bonding issues!

Tim

[zey]

The combinations of below work very well on my maintainence:

1) #83 + #80 + NXT

2) #83 + NXT

3) #80 + NXT

All done using a PC.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Using #80, #83 Before NXT ?

Originally posted by EdT
Should I, I heard #80 and #83 contained polishing oils and should not to be used with NXT with potential bonding problems, is that true ? should I just use #82 instead before NXTing ?

I read a lot of people's opinion on this subject on multiple forums and most of the time it relates back to somebody's advice to wash your car with strong detergent soap to remove anything from the surface so that somebody's polymer will bond to the surface.

From one of our chemists...

A wax, (natural or synthetic), is a substance that when applied to a surface will not adhere properly on its own. Thus, it is necessary to add specialized miscible oils to allow the waxy material to spread and adhere evenly to the surface. These oils along with polymers are responsible for improving the functionality of the wax protection, appearance, adherence and the overall application.

This means the addition of any Meguiar's polishes prior to the wax application will not only enhance the paint finish, but also aid in the appearance, adherence and overall lasting ability of the wax which is applied over the top of it.

Here's something else to think about, although in a different industry, there are parallels in the bonding and protecting topic that apply.

Meguiar's created the first mold release wax for the infant mold release industry in 1950. To this date, M08 Maximum Mold Release Wax continues to be one of the most popular mold release waxes in the world.



Recently, Meguiar's introduced a brand new synthetic liquid polymer mold release wax system called Meguiar's Velocity Liquid Synthetic Mold Release System.



Now let me tie this together and show how Meguiar's mold release systems, both paste waxes and liquid synthetic polymer systems are vital to creating finished parts like Yachts, and how important it is that the mold release wax bond, or adhere to the mold.


A new, or green mold is originally prepped by sanding smooth the surface and then compounding the surface to remove the sanding marks.

After that, the mold surface is polished to a high gloss. The smoother and glossier the surface can be made, the smoother and glossier the part being reproduced from the mold will be. This cuts down on post-production finishing work.

Now follow me on this....

The polishes used for machine polishing the molds are both very rich in Meguiar's trade secret polishing oils. These rich polishing oils help to create a brilliant high gloss finish on the mold. The two most used polishes for this process are,

M03 Machine Glaze



M82 Mold Polish



After polishing the mold with either of these two products, Meguiar's recommends applying the mold release wax next, either the traditional paste wax system, or the new liquid synthetic polymer system.

These are to be applied onto the mold surface after polishing, the excess polish is wiped off, but the mold is not washed with dish soap to remove any remaining polishing oils because they are part of the system. As the chemist stated above,

A wax, (natural or synthetic), is a substance that when applied to a surface will not adhere properly on its own. Thus, it is necessary to add specialized miscible oils to allow the waxy material to spread and adhere evenly to the surface. These oils along with polymers are responsible for improving the functionality of the wax protection, appearance, adherence and the overall application.

This means the addition of any Meguiar's polishes prior to the wax application will not only enhance the paint finish, but also aid in the appearance, adherence and overall lasting ability of the wax which is applied over the top of it.

Now it is vital that the mold release wax adhere to the surface to create a barrier coating to prevent the lay-up material, (usually polyester resin with a catalyst), from sticking to the mold. If the mold release wax fails to bond to the surface evenly over the entire surface, to create this barrier layer, then the resin will stick to the mold and the part will not release.

This is called, sticking a mold and it's not a good thing! Imagine sticking a 75' Yacht mold! The owner of the boat building business would be out the mold, the raw materials to make the part, (the part is the yacht), and the labor invested in everything, plus the down time due to the fact that the mold is not producing a sale-able product.

Ouch!

If you have ever worked with polyester resin, or even mixing 2-part epoxy glue together, then you know how sticky these materials are.

Do you understand how important it is now for a mold release wax to bond or adhere to the surface of the mold?

Now think about it for a few minutes... Meguiar's has been producing pure polishes since 1901. We've been making the M03 Machine Glaze since sometime in the 1930's, (I think), maybe 1940's or 1950's, but I'm pretty sure since the 1930's. We've been making mold release wax since 1950, that's 55 years of production for M08 Maximum Mold Release wax.

A lot of boats have been successfully built using Meguiar's mold release wax systems with a long track record of not sticking molds. If Meguiar's though it would be better to wash a mold with dish soap, or wipe it down with a 50/50 mixture of water and Isopropyl Alcohol before applying a mold release wax so that it will properly bond, then we would recommend this and we would have started recommending it a long time ago. But removing any Meguiar's polishing oils from the surface of a mold is not the best way to insure our waxes adhere and thus we don't recommend removing them before applying our waxes in fact just the opposite, we recommend polishing the surface first, and then applying the wax.

While boat molds and car finishes are very different items, the same ideas of cleaning, polishing and then applying a wax apply to both surfaces when using Meguiar's products.

Meguiar's chemists insure that all the products in our systems, whether it's the Velocity Mold Release System, or the Deep Crystal System, work with one another. each product building on the results from the previous product and process. This is called a synergistic compatibility. Each step in the system moving the process forward until the end-result is achieved, a beautiful, high gloss finish.

If your goal is to create a beautiful show car finish on our car, then trust in Meguiar's to see you through to success. We've been helping professionals and enthusiasts around the world to showcase their talents for over 100 years!

Mike

[Fidel]

I always prep the paint using #80 or #83 before topping it with NXT. Better shine, depth and durability for the LSP.

I trust in this combo so much that, in fact, I'd rather not put NXT w/o doing some fairly decent paint prep first..