M105 usage?

[cheapthrills]

I will start off by saying that 105 has won me over, I have been able to take care of bad swirls very quickly with little to no hazing. However I have had zero dusting at times and I have had gumming and some fast flashing at times with lots of dust fling.

My Process:
I start with a clean CCS orange pad, I mist FI on the pad two sprays, rub my hand across the pad to get the FI into the pad, Put a bunch of very, very small dots of M105 on the pad, using my fingers I swipe and rub the dots into the pad, I may add a few more dots to get nice coverage. I then add 3 pea size dots to pad, set the Flex DA to 4.5/5.0 put the polisher to the finish and start polishing, moving the buffer pretty slowly, I work and area of say no more then 20x20. I make a few passes 3 passes sometimes 4 and then wipe.

After every other panel, I'll use MF to quickly clean the pad. Then add 3-4 pea size dot for next section.


Is the surface being warm why I get gumming, flashing, dusting?
Am I not getting my pad clean enough? to much build up?


Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M105 usage?

Is this inconsistency happening when working on the same vehicle, just varying from one panel to the next? Or is it a vehicle to vehicle variance - that is, on one vehicle it's a dream to use but on another it dusts a bit more or even gets a little gummy?

We have seen some rare cases where on very dry paint M105 is not as silky smooth as it usually is on fresh paint. M105 was originally designed to be used as a heavy cutting compound that could quickly remove 1200 grit sanding marks on fresh or new paint. Sometimes, on older paint or even just neglected paint that isn't terribly old, it will dry up a bit quicker. One specific Ferrari 360 Modena comes to mind where M105 was simply not the best product to use.

So many times we've mentioned that our wide array of products can be likened to a mechanics tool kit - yes, many of them do basically the same thing, but many variables will dictate how well any one of them works in a given situation. Why have a couple dozen different wrenches - adjustable, box, open end, 6 point, 12 point, SAE, metric - when they all do basically the same thing?

[the_invisible]

Re: M105 usage?

You may not necessairly be doing anything wrong. The M105 is a delicate product, in my opinion. A slight change in ambient temperature could cause a huge difference on its characteristics. Try not to work the product in for too long to prevent that.

I can offer one advice for gumming. Spray ICE COLD water on the surface and wipe immediately. Almost all the time this removes of the time removes heavy gumming, whereas using 99% full strength alcohol doesn't.

[Nappers]

Re: M105 usage?

I've had problems with "pad puking" the stuff just blah's out of the pad and looks like a small beads of dough and hit with a roller and hard to remove.....

It was suggested to do a smaller area if memory serves. I haven't tried it yet but I'm sure that's the problem....

Also make sure you clean on the fly after application as you may or may not know.....

[cheapthrills]

Re: M105 usage?

I was working on a 09 Mazda CX9, so I don't think old paint is the culprit, But I could see why older dry or severely neglected paint would react.


Spraying the panel with ice cold water, this is to cool surface down correct? The panel I was working on was a little warm, not hot, But M105 seems to dry very fast on even a slightly warm surface.


I have been using a MF towel to clean on the fly, But I have not reprimed the pad unless I start a new one. I use 2 pads for a normal size car. I just recently started using a brush to clean on the fly. Seams to clean a bit better.

Are you guys cleaning and repriming the pad after each panel or section?
Is it normal for M105 to dust?

[Jeff U]

Re: M105 usage?

My take on M105:

I expected M105 to behave like M205. M205 stays lubricated, does not dry out, produces no dust regardless how long it is worked, and it's easy to wipe off.

M105 is very different - I find it "drys" quickly and produces a moderate amount of dust. ("Drys" or "gums up", same thing)

My method is very similar to what you describe.

I was using the LC pads with the dimples but I tried, and like much better, the Meguiars flat pads (I've had good success with M105 and the yellow polishing pad).

Here's what I found works for M105:

1. I do not prime the pad
2. I spray a tiny amount of water on the pad (I check the pad after each section to insure it does not feel completely dry. Spray tiny bit more water as needed)
3. I apply polish to the pad. Spread on surface of paint before turning on polisher.
4. Turn on polisher
5. Within seconds of beginning to polish, the M105 appears to dry out. If you stop here, the wipe off is very difficult.
6. Don't stop - continue polishing.
7. The M105 will begin to dust and almost appear to breakdown like a diminishing polish. You can work as long as you like.
8. There will be very little visible M105 left on the paint and wipe off is very easy.

Followed up by M205 it produces very nice results.

[the_invisible]

Re: M105 usage?

I was working on a 09 Mazda CX9, so I don't think old paint is the culprit, But I could see why older dry or severely neglected paint would react.


Spraying the panel with ice cold water, this is to cool surface down correct? The panel I was working on was a little warm, not hot, But M105 seems to dry very fast on even a slightly warm surface.


I have been using a MF towel to clean on the fly, But I have not reprimed the pad unless I start a new one. I use 2 pads for a normal size car. I just recently started using a brush to clean on the fly. Seams to clean a bit better.

Are you guys cleaning and repriming the pad after each panel or section?
Is it normal for M105 to dust?

Interesting that you are using M105 on your one year old Mazda.

I have briefly owned a Mazda3 and from what I understand, the CX9 has a relatively soft paint even compared to the Toyota and Lexus. Mazda claims that it does not bake their paint between coats. They spray the base coat and clear coat over one another while they are still wet, as to reduce energy costs.

When gumming occurs, and the residue becomes extremely hard to remove, you could spray the gummed up residue with iced water to remove the gumming. Of course, you could soak the panels with iced water prior to buffing to cool the panels. You could even prime your pads using a small spritz of iced water, even though that is not a method officially advised by the manufacturer. It works for me brilliantly, but your mileage may vary.

If you are NOT working with a rotary, a switch to Ultimate Compound may solve all your problems. Ultimate Compound, from my experience, doesn't dust as much, doesn't gum up at all, and doesn't leave a stubborn residue. Also, on your Mazda paint, unless you are having some serious defects, Ultimate Compound should do the trick. Working in smaller sections also reduces gumming.

[cheapthrills]

Re: M105 usage?

I was removing light scratches from the side of the CX9. There were scratches from bushes running across the car. There was also a nice mail box mark.

All in all everything came out, with very little left, I was very impressed. But I get crazy when M105 drys fast. I guess I still have to get use to it.

I'll have to try the ice cold water. I'll be picking up some UC as I here good things about it. How close is the abrasiveness to M105?

[dschribs]

Re: M105 usage?

If you're not working with a rotary, prime the pad with product - not QD or water.

It will dry fast. Use Meg's 34 to remove any product that's tough to remove with just a dry MF.

[cheapthrills]

Re: M105 usage?

My next attempt I will try M105 with new 2.0 yellow polishing.

I am using the a Flex DA what speed or speeds would be best?

I feel comfy at 4.5-5.0.

Is it better to use no FI on the pad and just M105?

I am having a bit of trouble figuring M105 out?

Please if anyone has any info, links or pdf's of KB's method PM me.

[cheapthrills]

Re: M105 usage?

[QUOTE=Michael Stoops;361950]Is this inconsistency happening when working on the same vehicle, just varying from one panel to the next? Or is it a vehicle to vehicle variance - that is, on one vehicle it's a dream to use but on another it dusts a bit more or even gets a little gummy?QUOTE]

Michael, I prime the pad using 2 light mists of FI, I then prime the pad with M105, rubbing it in with my fingers, till it looks uniform. I do about 4 over lapping passes up and down and 4 over lapping passes side to side. working about a 20x20 area.

Depending on the day (not necessarily the car) I could get about a minute out of M105, other days I start on my first side to side and before even going up and down it's dry and dusting. It drys up almost before I get a chance to cover the area I'm working on. I have the DA version M105 and using the flex DA. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You, Ed

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M105 usage?

Depending on the day (not necessarily the car) I could get about a minute out of M105, other days I start on my first side to side and before even going up and down it's dry and dusting. It drys up almost before I get a chance to cover the area I'm working on. I have the DA version M105 and using the flex DA. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

What part of the country are you in, Ed? If the humidity is really low and/or you're working on a warm surface (you've mentioned this previously here) that very well could cause M105 to dry faster. When you talk about priming the pad with M105, how much are you using to do this? Read through A look into Pad Priming - The Kevin Brown Method if you're really interested in this process.

If you are NOT working with a rotary, a switch to Ultimate Compound may solve all your problems.

This may well be a good alternative, especially if all you're looking to do is remove swirls and other light to moderate defects on even moderately hard paint. Remember that M105 was designed for rotary application with a wool pad to pull out 1500 grit sanding marks. For most consumer applications it really is overkill, and that's why we developed Ultimate Compound. It uses similar SMAT abrasives but in a more user friendly formula.

[cheapthrills]

Re: M105 usage?

Michael, I'm in NJ, and the weather is much cooler right now. This problem may also be due to pad, I'm not a big fan of the CCS pads with 105, or 205. The pore structure is very tight, and I don't like the outer edges, because they are not rounded.

I was trying to save a few of the 2.0 pads, but I may have to pull them out.

I am using the KB prime method, But still get flashing gumming and dust pretty quickly, On the first or second pass sometimes.


When it dries fast, I'll stop the buffer, mist the pad, and continue buffing, this still gives maybe one pass or so if that. I have also tried adding a bit more compound, with the same results.

Has Kevin finished the paper? I can't seem to find anything but the pad priming. If anyone has more info or the paper please email it to me. Thanks for all your help, Ed

[Tim Lingor]

Re: M105 usage?

Michael, I'm in NJ, and the weather is much cooler right now. This problem may also be due to pad, I'm not a big fan of the CCS pads with 105, or 205. The pore structure is very tight, and I don't like the outer edges, because they are not rounded.

I was trying to save a few of the 2.0 pads, but I may have to pull them out.

I am using the KB prime method, But still get flashing gumming and dust pretty quickly, On the first or second pass sometimes.


When it dries fast, I'll stop the buffer, mist the pad, and continue buffing, this still gives maybe one pass or so if that. I have also tried adding a bit more compound, with the same results.

Has Kevin finished the paper? I can't seem to find anything but the pad priming. If anyone has more info or the paper please email it to me. Thanks for all your help, Ed

Morning Ed,

Try this...slow the speed down on your Flex. At higher speeds, M105 tends to dust and that was an immediate clue as to what was happening. Instead of the higher speeds, reduce the speed and increase the downward pressure as well as slow down the speed of each pass. So unless it is pad related, which is possible, I would bet that the slower speeds, and increased downward pressure will solve the problems for you...

Please keep us posted!

Tim

[cheapthrills]

Re: M105 usage?

Tim thanks for the tips, I'll let you guys know how it works out.