Need help with M105

[asdklj22]

I used M105 once on my tribeca to remove the swirl mark. However the swirl mark comes back after 2 hand car wash. Also, the product leave buffer holograms on the paint too...is it common?

[Murr1525]

Re: Need help with M105

It should not be common...

How were you applying it? What machines/pads, what technique?

[Caress Detailing]

Re: Need help with M105

i'm with murr.

Explain the technique, equipment, and pads.

[asdklj22]

Re: Need help with M105

It should not be common...

How were you applying it? What machines/pads, what technique?

I followed the steps at http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=21694

I'm using a W-5000 pad with chicago DA polisher, however, I didn't apply any other M02 Fine Cut Cleaner or 21 Synthetic Sealant afterward..

[Murr1525]

Re: Need help with M105

Definately going to have to have someone more familiar with rotary bufffers chime in.

How bad were the swirls, are you really sure you needed to use one?

[Caress Detailing]

Re: Need help with M105

I followed the steps at http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=21694

I'm using a W-5000 pad with chicago DA polisher, however, I didn't apply any other M02 Fine Cut Cleaner or 21 Synthetic Sealant afterward..

I've actually recently used M105 on my new ford Ranger. I found that I can make it LSP ready just by M105 itself. But I decided to follow up with 205 to really refine the paint.

However, I'm not so sure about the swirls "showing up" again.

I suggest to do an IPA wipedown after you do the 105 and see if any swirls come up. There could be some polishing oils masking the defects instead of removing them.

But again, IME after an IPA wipedown, swirls were 100% removed with 105.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Need help with M105

I've personally never experienced "filling" like that with M105. It's a fairly dry product in comparison to those known for extreme filling.

The fact that you mentioned the SWIRLS returning after two washes tells me you are creating the swirls when you wash the car (which is the number one cause).

Especially considering you did not use any polishes after the M105 that would have had enough oils to hide the swirls, and no wax either, I think the swirls may be from the wash technique and/or methods.

As for the holograms, it might be a matter of refining your technique with the M105 application, or you may simply need to follow up with a medium or light polish. Keep in mind M105 is a COMPOUND, and although it often times does finish LSP ready, it is very normal to follow it with a polish.

Try following the M105 process with M205.

Also, as Murr mentioned, we would like more info about the products and technique.

[yalerd]

Re: Need help with M105

I'm using a W-5000 pad with chicago DA polisher

Do I understand correctly, are you using a DA polisher?

Seems very confusing, because I can't figure out how did you attach the Meguiar's Double Sided Wool Pad on the polisher, or is this a mistake and you are using a Rotary Buffer?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need help with M105

The W5000 is our double sided wool cutting pad and can only be used with a rotary buffer, so you may be confusing the kind of buffer you're using. I'm not aware of Chicago Electric making a D/A buffer, but their rotary sold through Harbor Freight is well known. Unless you've got an older tool that can somehow adapt to make this pad fit. In that case, you really shouldn't be using this pad with such a tool.

The W5000 is our most aggressive cutting pad, and M105 our most aggressive compound. It's no surprise you're getting holograms with this combination, especially if you're not very familiar with the process, you're running at a very high speed, sweeping the pad across the paint, etc. You really should be following this step with something less aggressive, like M205 and a W8207 polishing pad.

As a matter of fact, if all you were trying to do was remove some swirls from the paint, you took an extremely aggressive approach for what is generally a fairly minor defect. Other than wet sanding, you couldn't have hit the paint harder! We always recommend using the least aggressive approach to get the job done - it sounds like you took sort of the opposite approach here. Apologies if it sounds like you're being scolded here - we just need to know exactly what you're using, what you're trying to accomplish, what was done after the buffing process, etc.

Do you have access to a less aggressive machine, pads and liquid? Any photos of what you're up against?

[smurf]

Re: Need help with M105

Any photos of what you're up against?

A photo of your buffer and the paint work would make it a big help to every one

[Calais]

Re: Need help with M105

The W5000 is our most aggressive cutting pad, and M105 our most aggressive compound. It's no surprise you're getting holograms with this combination, especially if you're not very familiar with the process, you're running at a very high speed, sweeping the pad across the paint, etc. You really should be following this step with something less aggressive, like M205 and a W8207 polishing pad.

As a matter of fact, if all you were trying to do was remove some swirls from the paint, you took an extremely aggressive approach for what is generally a fairly minor defect.

Bingo! This is exactly what I was thinking.

[asdklj22]

Re: Need help with M105

A photo of your buffer and the paint work would make it a big help to every one

This is the problem, lot's of marks on the tribeca, any suggestion how to remove them?

[FinalTouchDetail]

Re: Need help with M105

You need to get a good dual-action polisher and go at it one panel at a time, checking your work along the way.

Those holograms are most likely from improper technique and is not simply the result of the product.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need help with M105

This is the problem, lot's of marks on the tribeca, any suggestion how to remove them?

You need to use a much less aggressive approach than what you've been doing. I don't normally do this, but I'm going to quote myself here just to reinforce what happened to cause this problem in the first place.

The W5000 is our double sided wool cutting pad and can only be used with a rotary buffer, so you may be confusing the kind of buffer you're using. I'm not aware of Chicago Electric making a D/A buffer, but their rotary sold through Harbor Freight is well known. Unless you've got an older tool that can somehow adapt to make this pad fit. In that case, you really shouldn't be using this pad with such a tool.

The W5000 is our most aggressive cutting pad, and M105 our most aggressive compound. It's no surprise you're getting holograms with this combination, especially if you're not very familiar with the process, you're running at a very high speed, sweeping the pad across the paint, etc. You really should be following this step with something less aggressive, like M205 and a W8207 polishing pad.

As a matter of fact, if all you were trying to do was remove some swirls from the paint, you took an extremely aggressive approach for what is generally a fairly minor defect. Other than wet sanding, you couldn't have hit the paint harder! We always recommend using the least aggressive approach to get the job done - it sounds like you took sort of the opposite approach here. Apologies if it sounds like you're being scolded here - we just need to know exactly what you're using, what you're trying to accomplish, what was done after the buffing process, etc.

Do you have access to a less aggressive machine, pads and liquid? Any photos of what you're up against?

So the first thing we want you to do is put away the wool pad and M105 - you do NOT need anything that aggressive as it's only gotten you into trouble here. Lesson learned.

While it is possible to finish virtually hologram free with a rotary buffer, it takes a lot of experience and skill, but you don't achieve that finish with the pad and liquid you chose. If you're going to insist on using the rotary then we would suggest moving to a W8207 yellow polishing pad and some M205. But don't run the tool any faster than 1200 rpm, preferably even slower than that. You will need to keep the pad flat against the paint and move the tool slowly over the paint, using only light to moderate pressure - mostly light. Take your time.

That said, we honestly don't think you should be using a rotary for this work at this stage of your experience. A D/A polisher like our G110v2 or even a used Porter Cable you can pick up on ebay is going to be much easier to master and every bit as effective at removing these rotary instilled defects. You can learn to be highly proficient with a D/A in just a few minutes, but the rotary takes a long time to master. With improper use of a rotary, and a less than complete understanding of the process, you end up with the situation you're in now. You would use the same yellow pad and M205 or even Ultimate Compound from our consumer line to correct this. As a matter of fact, we use the G110v2, W8207 pad and Ultimate Compound when teaching our Saturday classes, and we've had black cars with heavy holograms come out beautifully, even when letting first timers take a crack at it.

Please understand that we aren't trying to chastise you or make you feel bad. You obviously care about your Tribeca or you wouldn't be trying to make the paint perfect, nor would you be spending time on a detailing forum. We like your car, too, and want you to be successful and happy with the result. But trying to self teach with a rotary, especially on a black car, is generally just an exercise in frustration - as you're finding out. For as bad as this looks, you can correct it and achieve the results you want. But we highly recommend going with a D/A buffer to get the job done.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Need help with M105

I followed the steps at http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=21694

I'm using a W-5000 pad with chicago DA polisher, however, I didn't apply any other M02 Fine Cut Cleaner or 21 Synthetic Sealant afterward..

Morning,

I just wanted to clarify a couple of things since you quoted my review:

The link you provided was a review of M105 and not a step by step guide. I even mentioned that within the review itself:

Now a lot of people have been asking on the Forum can you go to a LSP right after the M105. The answer is, I wouldn’t. Sure it finishes down incredibly well, but this is a compound which does require subsequent polishing step(s) to further refine the finish. In this case, I followed with Meguiar’s M02 Fine Cut Cleaner with the Dual Action Polisher. After topping with 2 coats of #21 Synthetic Sealant, the finish is flawless, not a mark to be seen!

Tim

Meguiar's M105 is an excellent product, but it also takes the proper technique and equipment to get the most out of it. Too many people automatically jump to the most aggressive products and methods thinking it will save time and money. In the end, the old saying of "Use the least aggressive method/product to get the job done" often comes to mind. Using the most aggressive methods need to be left to people with experience otherwise one can get in over their heads very quickly, leading to a disastrous result.

Mike Stoops provided very sound advice: you need to use a Dual Action Polisher like PC 7424/7336, with the correct pads and products to remove the damage. Unfortunately, sometimes it will take someone skilled with a rotary polisher to undue the damage that was inflicted by a rotary.

Case in point, my write-up here where I had to fix someones mistakes:

Fixing a Detailing Nightmare!


With a little patience, we can make your SUV look awesome, but we need to use the right products with the proper skill and technique!

Tim