In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

[Orca]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Hey Don ... you've not done wrong ... don't think that.

I think Mike was taking the cautious approach and did not want to just go ahead and edit your post even though for the most part it's his post from some years ago and he just wants to improve it. I found that post on Autopia a short while ago and it really helped me understand how to use this product, which led to me writing this post.

I work in the support industry, too and sometimes advice you gave many years ago can be improved with a little time. Let's have him improve this advice and read what the updates are. From there, there's nothing like trying the product and getting to know it.

[Don]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Don,

Would you mind if I deleted your post of a "Reply" I wrote years ago in a thread on Autopia as it has technical mistakes as well as spelling and grammar mistakes.

I can re-write the article, make it better and more in keeping with Meguiar's standards, (a little higher than "Reply on the fly"), and then we can make it an article in "Hot Topics" and update the article on Autopia.

We don't delete or censor posts on this forum unless they break the forum rules so I'd rather get your permission first.


Thanks,

Don't hold off on the axe to spare my feelings. I posted inaccurate info and it needs to be corrected. I apologize for not checking with you to make sure the information was up-to-date and accurate...

my bad...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Don,

Would you mind if I deleted your post of a "Reply" I wrote years ago in a thread on Autopia as it has technical mistakes as well as spelling and grammar mistakes.

I can re-write the article, make it better and more in keeping with Meguiar's standards, (a little higher than "Reply on the fly"), and then we can make it an article in "Hot Topics" and update the article on Autopia.

We don't delete or censor posts on this forum unless they break the forum rules so I'd rather get your permission first.

Here's the link to the originaly reply that was then taken out of the thread and posted as an article on May 27th, 2003 and was actually written before that date. (Over 5 years ago)

http://www.autopia.org/forum/detailing-articles-videos/23740-meguiar-s-7-mike-phillips.html

Thanks,

[Don]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Alot of people say that #7 is hard to use so i would like to know the correct way to apply it remove it since i plan on detailing my car soon, and it will be by hand.

There used to be a thread on AUTOPIA that Mike wrote, which really went into detail about #7 but it's gone. I had it saved on my old computer, but when my kid crashed it, I lost it too.

I did A LOT of GOOGLING and I found this. I'm not sure if it's the same as the 'Ultimate #7 Thread,' but it's all I could come up with.

As someone else pointed out, #7 is a high oil content product. In fact, it's mostly oil. I could tell you more about it, I have over 7 pages on just this product alone in my forthcoming book, How to Polish Paint. it's really quite a unique product.

For the last 15 years I have seen a lot people comment as to how hard the product is to get off.

Usually, (and I'm not saying this is what your did), the person makes a couple of mistakes.

#7 is a non-drying oil.

One of the many things it can be used for is to make paint look wet, thus the name… Show Car Glaze.

The reason it can do this is because it is a non-drying oil. Think about it, when you get a brand new paint job, or if you spray some rattle can paint… before it dries… it looks wet, because it is. It hasn't dried.

It's hard to get the "Wet Look" with something they dries, especially if it turns white/opaque.

You cannot make something "more clear" with something that is "opaque".

#26 Yellow Wax, (which is a polymer/synthetic for the most part), dries clear, it does not turn white. It turns the surface very dark and deep however.

So the mistake most people make when using the #7 is this.

1. They apply it to thick - this makes it extremely hard to remove
2. They try to remove it like a wax.

Two tips.

First Tip - Apply #7 with a thin coat

Anybody's product when applied thick is hard to remove, just read the Zaino threads. Same thing applies to most of the Meguiar's waxes. A thick coat does nothing but waste product anyway, think about it. you wipe the excess off, i.e. the stuff sitting on top.

The idea is to "Push" the product into the pores of the paint, allow it to cure or dry, (if it's a drying product) then wipe off the material remaining on the surface. Sure some product remains on the surface, and there are a lot of opinions concerning "Layering", but suffice to say, there is a point of "Diminishing Returns".

If it were true you could create a "film-build" of product, that would mean that after enough coats, you would no longer be applying a coat of product onto paint, but in fact would be applying a coat of product onto a "film-build of product", (In other words, your layers of wax/polish/protectant/polymer/sealant/synthetic, or whatever word/term you want to use to describe your protective coating.

Kind of like trying to re-create a "Clear Coat". Last time I checked, nobody's product is clear, at least not like the clear resin a clear coat of paint is made from, (clear resin is often slightly amber in color)

So I don't know if I subscribe to the "Layering" theory. I am experimenting however, with multiple coats after coat of product on my black demo panel here in my office, so far, no "visible film-build". I do believe that two thin coats are better than one, and three coats wont' hurt. After that, I don't know. I would at least let some time go by.

So apply #7 thin. Use a soft foam applicator pad.

Second Tip - Removing #7 requires a special technique, not the same kind of technique you remove a wax with.

Most people remove their wax like this. Start in one area, begin wiping until all of the wax is removed in that area and then move on to virgin territory.

This will not work for #7. The "Act" of removing #7, tends to "Re-liquefy" the product, basically creating the smearing around effect that you experience when you apply it.

Instead, "Break" or "Disrupt" the "Continuous" layer of film-build and then move on to a virgin area and "Break this film-build up.

You see, #7 doesn't actually dry, but… it will "Skin", somewhat like homemade pudding.

This "Skin" is easier to break up and remove then the more liquid film is.

By breaking up the continuos film-build and then moving on, you are exposing a fresh layer of the film to the air where it will skin. The next time you come around, it will be easier to break up and remove.

So the idea is to apply a thin coat to the entire car.

Then, Go around the car two to three times, removing a little bit at a time.

A big soft, high quality, 100% cotton, terry cloth towel works best for the first two passes, and then switch over to a Microfiber polishing cloth for the last pass. Microfiber polishing cloths have an affinity for both water and oil based liquids and will remove oily residues much better with less fiber inflicted scratches.

Anyway, that’s what my experience has taught me after applying and removing gallons of #7 over the years, to every kind of car with every known type of paint.

Another person mentioned it will wash off. This is true. #7 is a "Body Shop" safe polish. It has no "Lasting Characteristics", i.e. it contains no ingredients that will affect "Paint Adhesion", typically waxes or silicones. (There are what are called, "Paintable Polymers", Meguiar's uses these in the "Speed Glaze", a body shop safe, cleaner/polish).

#7 is not meant to last. The idea is it will not semi-permanently "seal" or "Cap" the pores of the paint. (waxes, sealants, synthetics, polymers, whatever you prefer to call them act to semi-permanently seal or cap the pores of the paint. Nothing is permanent, at least not according to the theory of Entropy. This can lead into an entire discussion of "Permeable and Impermeable, but I digress).

This is important when used on solvent-borne paints because it allows the solvents to continue to work their way out of the paint resin through "capillary-action", (I think). The idea being that paint that is fully cured will be harder and last longer than paint that is not fully cured, i.e. softer and will not last as long.

How important this is to Catalyzed paints I do not know. The Synthetic wax crowd usually tells everyone it is safe to wax catalyzed paint shortly after they are sprayed. While this may be safe, I know that paint manufactures "Still" recommend waiting 30/60/90 days before you apply any type of "Sealant", i.e. wax to the surface. Best to follow manufactures recommendations when dealing with something as expensive a s new paint job, not to mention all of the work and inconvenience getting a car painted causes.

#7, in my opinion works better on single-stage finishes, either modern or traditional. For the wet-look, either Deep Crystal Polish, (very much like #7 but in Meguiar's Consumer line), is easier to apply and remove or #80 Hand Polish in the Meguiar's 80's series, (Body shop products, only comes in a quart).

I'm sorry you had a hard time applying and removing the product, perhaps if you try again, following my tips you will have better results.

By the way, as someone else commented, usually, #7 is applied first, then wax is applied over it. This is because the #7 is water soluble and the wax isn't', thus the wax will act to "Lock" or "Seal" in the #7.

However… right before a show… to make the paint look wet and to fill in hairline scratches, it is perfectly aright to apply the #7 on top of the wax, thus the name… Show Car Glaze.

It was never formulated to be a lasting product, but instead a Beauty product.

Now I know the Zaino crowd, including Sal, don't like using "oily" product on their paint for a host of reasons, I understand this fully and also agree they have a point.

With that said… if your goal is to make the paint it's darkest, deepest and wettest looking, then I submit your best bet is a product that is oily and doesn't dry. Yes, it might be temporary, but the show only last one to two days sometimes three.

The name is Show Car Glaze, not water beading, long lasting durable Miracle Wax.

You also might give the #26 a try for a dark, deep finish like you black corvette.

No it doesn't bead water as long as Zaino and many other waxes, the #26, Gold Class and even the Medallion were never formulated to "Bead Water".

If you want to see a wax that will bead water… try the Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax in the Maroon bottle, make sure it says "New and Improved on the label.

Our chemist reformulated it to "Bead Water Like Crazy" because of consumer demand. Only costs $5.00 a bottle and works great for most people.

I'm sure they could do this for are other products but the idea, I think, was to make a wax that didn't bead water to avoid deep chemical etching that is caused when these tall beads dry on the finish.

Of course this doesn't matter to hard-core enthusiasts that dry their cars after washing.

That's all … hope this helps,

Mike Phillips

[Mike Phillips]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Is the formula for making it, still the same?

Great question. Been told that the formula for M07 Show Car Glaze is unchanged since it was created.

[Ken_Allen]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Is the formula for making it, still the same?

[Derrick]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

#7 was around before plastic was invented

[Mike Phillips]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

I love that picture ... it's great to see even today how Meg's maintain a product line with a proper heritage!

Notice the first bottle is glass and the following bottles are plastic.

#7 was around before plastic was invented

[Mike Phillips]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Alot of people say that #7 is hard to use so i would like to know the correct way to apply it remove it since i plan on detailing my car soon, and it will be by hand.

When you're new to #7, only apply to a panel at at time, by "panel" we mean a fender, a door, a hood, etc. After applying the #7 and working it into and over the paint like you would a skin lotion to dry skin, then wipe off the excess and move on.

You can break large panels up into "Sections", for example maybe break the hood up into 4 to 6 sections.

The idea being to apply the product, work it in, and then wipe it off and move on until you've repeated this over all the painted panels.

Have one or two clean foam applicator pads on hand and plenty of clean, dry plush microfiber polishing cloths.

Only apply an ample amount. By the word "ample" we mean not to little, and not too much, just enough to lubricate the surface so you can spread the product out and work the paint without struggling because there's not enough product and don't over do it because that just makes for more product to get off.

#7 is very oily and this makes it smear when you wipe it off. The more excess on the surface, the more smearing and the more difficult it will be to wipe off easily.

People think like this,

"If a little is good, more is better"

That's true of my bank account and my gas tank but it never applies when working on paint.

Good luck!

[car fanatic]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Alot of people say that #7 is hard to use so i would like to know the correct way to apply it remove it since i plan on detailing my car soon, and it will be by hand.

[yalerd]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Very nice results!

[Orca]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

... for clear coats? Okay ... so I have the right product already for my car with #7, then. I love that picture ... it's great to see even today how Meg's maintain a product line with a proper heritage!

#7 is my good friend and now I have learned how to apply it properly, I'll stick with it until swirls start to appear. Thanks guys ... maybe I'll get some photographs tomorrow, but the car will probably be covered in pollen.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

So, what about #81? It's a proper hand polish and I like hand polishing ... where would this product sit?

M81 Hand Polish, like #7 is a "Pure Polish", this means it's non-abrasive.

It's an modern formula for clear coat paints.

Remember, #7 came out in either the 1920's or 1930's, hard to pinpoint exactly when.


Here's a small collection of M0716 through the decades...

[Orca]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Hey Stang_Krazy - thanks for the reply. Actually, I have #80, but not #81. I have used it in the past, but perhaps I have not used it properly by hand. I think that is perhaps why I was asking about #81.

So ... if I do get some swirls, #9 would sound like the right product and then #80 if I want something a little stronger.

Thanks guys ... like many new 'detailers', I have bought a bunch of products that seemed right from reading forum posts, but paying attention to the real detail has led me to understand how one product works really well for my requirementsl I'm a lot happier maintaining this paintwork now.

[Orca]

Re: In praise of #7 Show Car Glaze

Mike - thanks, man ... I have #80 (and #83 which make a great combination), but I think I have been a little timid with it by hand when I have used it. I worked #7 in quite hard after the Car-Lack product and it skinned as expected and buffed out really well ... it smells bad, but I like that old-fashioned smell for a classic car.

It's good to read about the cleaner products ... where I live is very wet, high altitude and quite cold a lot of the year. I tend to need a paint cleaner, pure polish and good wax. I undertake those jobs with minimal unintentional swirling and don't tend to need fillers.

I think I need to work #80 a little more on surfaces that could do with a swirl remove/polish. I am very close to my bodyshop guys and I think if I understood a little more about what they do, I might be able to select better combinations to maintain the finishes that they give me.

I really like what #7 has given me tonight and I think I have been using the #83/#80 combination wrong before ... or not needed it. Given the finish I got this evening with #7, I think I will just carry on using this and if/when I need a little swirl removal try #80 again, or perhaps #9. I'll get some #9 in and read up on how to use it (and the other products) properly.

So, what abuot #81? It's a proper hand polish and I like hand polishing ... where would this product sit?