M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

[Mike Pennington]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

Anyway we you can post some pictures in different light of what you are experiencing...

This may also help diagnose the situation.

Mike

[Mike Phillips]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

It's almost like the swirls / spider webs are there, then they cleared over it. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen, but thats the feeling I got.

So after the M105 on the rotary, I hit it with M83 on a DA. The M83 didn't seem to change it at all.

Must be harder than glass

If everything you've tried so far is having little or no effect then it might be time to get a second opinion, is there anyone you now with years of polishing experience you could show this to?

Is it possible to wet sand them out, or because its a OEM paint job is that ill advised?

If you're not making a dent in the swirls that are already in the paint then it's going to be hard to remove sanding marks also. If the paint is truly the problem here, as in it just is not very polishable then it might be time to walk away from this project.

I would give that a try and work smaller areas than normal.

Tim

This is a good tip, just make sure you don't get the paint too hot, you should always be able to place the palm of your hand onto the surface without finding yourself jerking your hand away quickly because it's too hot.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

Great, more stuff I need to buy

I'll try the W-5000 next time. Since its double sided, how does it mount?

W5000 Dual Sided Wool Pad with Adapter to attach to the Rotary Buffer


In order to attach our W5000 Double Sided Wool pad to your rotary buffer you'll need to get an adapter that threads onto the internal backing plate built into the W5000 DS wool pad and onto the 5/8 spindle on your rotary buffer.

Like this...

[SP|D3RMaN]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

Hi guys.
I was just wondering,did anyone tried lifting the other end (wired end) of the RB for a deeper cut ? I know it's not recommended by MOL in here. But i was just wondering about it.

[AeroCleanse]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

The W-5000 pad is quite a bit more aggressive than the W-4000. And yet, the combo of M105 and the W-5000 finish down to an incredible level!!

I would give that a try and work smaller areas than normal. If that does not do it then there is something seriously not right....

Tim

Great, more stuff I need to buy

I'll try the W-5000 next time. Since its double sided, how does it mount?

[Tim Lingor]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

Nope just the W4000 pad at 1,500

The W-5000 pad is quite a bit more aggressive than the W-4000. And yet, the combo of M105 and the W-5000 finish down to an incredible level!!

I would give that a try and work smaller areas than normal. If that does not do it then there is something seriously not right....

Tim

[AeroCleanse]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

Have you tried the M105 with the W-5000 pad with the rotary spinning around 1500 rpm?

Tim

Nope just the W4000 pad at 1,500

[Derrick]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

Hey,

That is extremely weird. I have not found a paint yet that M105 with the proper pad ( I use the W-5000 and Solo wool pads) had not worked perfectly on!

It is not wise to wetsand the factory paint as it is usually quite thin. It can be done, but it is a risk. It also depends on how much wet sanding you have done previously etc...

Have you tried the M105 with the W-5000 pad with the rotary spinning around 1500 rpm?

Tim

I agree, unless you fully know what you are doing it is a big risk to wetsand factory paint. I do it every now and then but only use 3000 grit and i explain to each customer the affects it can have and the effects of a thin clear coat. Something like 1500 grit will eat right through a factory clear in just a few strokes as i have seen before on my old test car

[Tim Lingor]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

Hey,

That is extremely weird. I have not found a paint yet that M105 with the proper pad ( I use the W-5000 and Solo wool pads) had not worked perfectly on!

It is not wise to wetsand the factory paint as it is usually quite thin. It can be done, but it is a risk. It also depends on how much wet sanding you have done previously etc...

Have you tried the M105 with the W-5000 pad with the rotary spinning around 1500 rpm?

Tim

[AeroCleanse]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

One of two things,

A) Either this paint is as hard as glass

or

B) We need to tweak your technique somewhere


Do you have another car with swirls that you can repeat the same thing you're doing to this car?

This is not a very good test but if the swirls come out easy on a different paint system you test on, (or a couple of different cars), but don't come out of this Malibu then that would indicate the paint is indeed very hard or the swirls and scratches are very deep.

If you can't get the swirls out of 2 or 3 different paint systems, (different cars), and this Malibu then that might indicate a process issue.

It sure would be handy if we has a seasoned Pro in your area that could check this out...

Its probably a combo of A and B

I took them out of my 93 F-150 with M84 no problem. Of course my truck is dark blue, and the 98 Malibu is white.

It's almost like the swirls / spider webs are there, then they cleared over it. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen, but thats the feeling I got.

So after the M105 on the rotary, I hit it with M83 on a DA. The M83 didn't seem to change it at all.

Must be harder than glass

Is it possible to wet sand them out, or because its a OEM paint job is that ill advised?

[EAT HEMI]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

One of two things,

A) Either this paint is as hard as glass

or

B) We need to tweak your technique somewhere


Do you have another car with swirls that you can repeat the same thing you're doing to this car?

This is not a very good test but if the swirls come out easy on a different paint system you test on, (or a couple of different cars), but don't come out of this Malibu then that would indicate the paint is indeed very hard or the swirls and scratches are very deep.

If you can't get the swirls out of 2 or 3 different paint systems, (different cars), and this Malibu then that might indicate a process issue.

It sure would be handy if we has a seasoned Pro in your area that could check this out...

Well, #83 took out everything from my 2006 Charger and barely made a dent in my 2002 Malibu. I kept everything the same from the layer of #83 upward (i.e., new pad, same DA, same operator!). Even surface prep and temps were similar.

The only variables left I thought were paint type and defect severity.

I am saving my Malibu for rotary practice fodder now!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

One of two things,

A) Either this paint is as hard as glass

or

B) We need to tweak your technique somewhere


Do you have another car with swirls that you can repeat the same thing you're doing to this car?

This is not a very good test but if the swirls come out easy on a different paint system you test on, (or a couple of different cars), but don't come out of this Malibu then that would indicate the paint is indeed very hard or the swirls and scratches are very deep.

If you can't get the swirls out of 2 or 3 different paint systems, (different cars), and this Malibu then that might indicate a process issue.

It sure would be handy if we has a seasoned Pro in your area that could check this out...

[AeroCleanse]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

I'm not seeing good results on the hood. I'm getting quite fustrated at the whole thing. Looked good until I pulled it into the sun. Spider webbing all over the place.

[AeroCleanse]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

M105 seems to be doing a much better job than M84 did. Not perfect, but I haven't hit it with anything else yet. I'll probably do M80 as the next step.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: M84 + Wool on rotary = Not enough

First, there are some hard clear coat paints on the market, so you're doing the right thing by testing the least aggressive products first.

M105 with a wool pad is designed to remove 1200 grit sanding marks but this is on FRESH PAINT, (in a body shop environment), which does tend to be easier to work on as it's not completely cured and hardened yet.

So give the M105 a try with your wool cutting pad, try only a small are about 2' squared and then inspect your results and let us know if M105 is making a dent in this paint system.



A side comment...

While it's a great idea to try to remove every swirl and scratch out of a car's finish, it's also a good idea to ask yourself how they got there in the first place. If the car became scratched and swirled because of how the owner normally takes care of the car or in some cases doesn't take care of the car, then if the owner isn't going to change how they take care of the car after you restore the finish, then it's just going to revert back to the condition it started in before you worked on it.

Thus it's kind of a waste of your hard work and time. It's great for experience but remember that the UV protection for the basecoat, or color coat is in the clear layer of paint and the more clear you remove the more UV protection you remove.

That's why sometimes it's more important to evaluate the customer first and then evaluate the condition of the paint and make sure your plan of action is actually best for the customer and his car and specifically how they're going to maintain the car in the future.

We meet a lot of people that think they want a show car finish on their daily driver. These same people plan on taking their car to a car wash.

The only realistic way to take care of a show car finish is to either take ownership of the washing process or hire and pay top dollar for a real professional to wash your show car finish in the way you would do it to prevent instilling swirls and scratches into it again.

Point being is that for most daily drivers and most "John Q Public" type car owners, putting a show car finish on their daily driver is the wrong goal unless you're trying to get experience on a daily driver so you can move up to doing show car quality work in the future.

Make sense?