Does M21 2.0 contain cleaning agents?

[pwaug]

If so, will these cleaning agents remove any other synthetic sealant that has already been put on the surface, including M21?

[pwaug]

Re: Does M21 2.0 contain cleaning agents?

Bump!

[Mike Pennington]

Re: Does M21 2.0 contain cleaning agents?

To begin with, M21 2.0 is not a cleaner / wax when used by D/A or by hand application. However, keep in mind, M21 2.0 is designed to be used by rotary, so if you are using a finishing, polishing, cutting foam or even a wool pad (yes some shops would) on a rotary, the pad will be removing most, if not all previous layers of wax on the surface.

When using hand or D/A application it is important to remember you can apply up to 2 maybe even 3 coats to get 100% uniform coverage using M21 2.0 (Even Tech Wax 2.0).

Hope this helps !

Mike

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Does M21 2.0 contain cleaning agents?

We've been told that both NXT and M21 contain do contain some cleaning agents but they are not cleaner/waxes in that they are not designed to go after a wide spectrum of paint defects like a cleaner/wax is designed to do.

Whether they will remove previously applied products probably depends upon how you're applying them because force from your hand or a machine and an aggressive application material, these two factors themselves are more important to how aggressive the cleaning action of a wax is versus what's in a wax.

On our other forum, the Community Server Forum, in this thread,

#21 is some strange stuff compared to NXT...

In response to a statement by Todd Helme, our Director of Training, Mike Pennington wrote this,

From my experience, if you really wanted to layer the two, I guess NXT should go down first and here is why.

I used #21 and topped half of the hood with NXT (this was popular on the old forum a year ago as a combo). Both sides looked great, but the NXT side lost its beading, then its shine with in a month. The #21 side looked MUCH better after a month, and went on to bead water for several more months, where as the NXT topped looked flat and had no water beading.

This leads me to believe that NXT will strip #21 off, so in effect, they cannot be layered this way. If you insist on trying to layer them, the only way I could see it actually working is by using NXT first, but even then #21 has cleaners in it, so I am not sure if it would remove the NXT or not.

While Todd commented on his experience, and we appreciate that

We must add....

NXT Gen Tech Wax is not a cleaner/wax and will not remove M21 or M21 is not a cleaner/wax and will not remove NXT Gen Tech Wax if you try and layer the products.

Keep in mind, the only reason to "layer" would be to ensure complete and uniform coverage, but after 2 - 3 coats that is complete, and you are really not getting any additional benefits.

While we have had huge success with NXT Gen Tech Wax being the #1 selling premium wax in America, we decided to go ahead and create NXT Gen Tech Wax 2.0. This will allow the people who want "beading" to be 100% satisfied.... While we all know that beading doesn't equal protection, for many people "beading" is comfort. Therefore, we took the same NXT Gen Tech Wax with all of it's positive characteristics, and added Hydrophobic Polymer Technology......This means better quality of protection, and for all you guys that want to see beading....it beads like crazy for a long time.

Now we know that not everyone will be satisfied, but we do know, for all you existing NXT Generation Tech Wax fans, as well as, all you water beading fans...you will both be very happy !!!!!

On a side note.....we must all remember that M21 is a "Pro" version of NXT Gen Tech Wax....very similar, but it has the ability to be used by a rotary buffer, where NXT Gen Tech Wax can not be used by rotary buffer....Also, M21 2.0 is out as well as a new product for 2008. Same great M21, but with added Hydrophobic Polymer Technology.

Mike Pennington

M21 and NXT are not cleaner/waxes, they do contain a sleight amount of cleaning agents but not enough replace a cleaner/wax when you're working on neglected paint where a better choice would be either a dedicated Paint Cleaner or Cleaner/Polish or a Cleaner/Wax.

As far as the topic of "Layering" goes, no one has ever proved you can increase the thickness or film-build of a layer of wax in a way that any of us can duplicate on paint since I've been posting to the Internet and that's at least 1994 and possibly 1993. Lot's of forum personalities on other forums "talk" about it, but no one has ever walked the walk and posted a process and a product that can be applied over and over again which will result in an increased thickness in the layer of wax or some type of paint protectant on the paint and in the end-result, the paint still looks good, as in clear and gloss.

The reason for that list little part of the equations is because there are some products on the market that theoretically you could just apply more and more layers of the product onto the paint, but with each layer you'll be able to see the paint less and less because the product you're applying or "layering" isn't' clear to start with and doesn't dry clear, so more and more coats means you'll be covering up the paint with something you can't see through.

Kind of defeats the purpose of having a great looking paint job.

Best thing to do for whatever it is you're working on is to,

"Find a product you like and use it often"

Meguiar's doesn't buy into to teach that waxes can be layered after 2-3 coats and the idea here is building a "Uniform Thickness Coating", not that you can keep applying more and more product and have a thicker and thicker layer of protection on the paint. We would also question the credibility of any person or company that makes that claim and again, in all the years we've been detailing cars, teaching detailing classes and posting how-to information to the Internet, we've never had any prove in a process that you and I can repeat, a way to create a measurable thickness of wax protection, or any other type of paint sealant no matter what the name might be, on the surface of the paint with the end result not muting or clouding the original clarity and gloss of the paint.

Have a crisp $100.00 bill for anyone who can post a repeatable process that meets these criteria.

For more detailed information on Layering and our take on it click the link below.

What's the deal with "Layering?"


Hope this helps clear up any confusion or questions you may have...

By the way...

What are you working on?
What are you trying to accomplish?
How are you doing your work, by hand or machine?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Does M21 2.0 contain cleaning agents?

Bump!

Just to point out, your first post in this thread was posted Friday morning at 6:40 am

Somehow we missed it on Friday during the day, we apologize for that, we do our best to answer questions as quickly as possible. After Friday night, because we're busing with a class on Saturday for most of the day and take Sunday off, we don't get back to answering questions again till Monday morning.

We appreciate your patience.


This weekend at Meguair's Garage!
Southern California Lightning Owners Club

Full Class!


Hands-On Training!


One member drove all the way from Nevada to be
at Meguiar's Garage for this class!

Click here to read more or add your comments

[pwaug]

Re: Does M21 2.0 contain cleaning agents?

Thanks Mike and Mike!! Just the info I was looking for. No problem with the delay--just gave it a bump this morning as I figured no one would be around over the weekend.

I plan on applying the 21 by hand and applying 2 coats for uniform coverage so the cleaning agents shouldn't affect it.

Thanks again!!

[Larry A]

Re: Does M21 2.0 contain cleaning agents?

So if I were to use Klasse AIO or #7 to prep the car , NXT2 will not remove the Klasse or #7.

[Mike Pennington]

Re: Does M21 2.0 contain cleaning agents?

No...

Please don't get M21 2.0 or even Tech Wax 2.0 confused with any type of cleaner/wax. The so called "cleaners" in the product are there for other reason than "prepping" the surface.

The simple way through this is to treat M21 2.0 and Tech Wax 2.0 as a LSP that can be used over a cleaner, polish or even another LSP.



Mike