Detail questions on black boat

[hemi]

Spring boat detail : Deck is badly oxidized, Sides are in pretty good shape, they dont get as much sun ,only very slight oxidation. I plan to wash and clay boat.Boat is black gelcoat,built in 1979.

SIDES:M45,M44,M45,Flagship Marine Wax
DECK:M45,M49,M45,Flagship Marine Wax

I plan to use a rotary buffer or G110. I thought the rotary might be better due to hardness,thickness, and age of gelcoat.
I plan on using the M45 polish twice in each detail to help feed the pores of the gelcoat prior to waxing.
I also plan to do a 2x2 test area on deck and sides before proceeding.

Questions: Do the pores of the gelcoat need to breath ?
Does the wax fill these pores in?
Does the Flagship wax dry to a white haze or more like the NXT
Would the Ultimate Protectant work on gelcoat?
Would waxing the bottom cause more drag?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

It sounds as though you have an excellent plan, no doubt about it. If you're skilled with a rotary and the gel coat is badly oxidized on the deck, it's not a bad idea at all. Certainly it's got more power to cut through the really heavy stuff faster. You may then find the D/A is sufficient for the hull, and maybe even easier to use depending on accessibility.

For your more specific questions, see answers in red below:

Questions: Do the pores of the gelcoat need to breath ? Not in the way that, say, fresh paint does, no.

Does the wax fill these pores in?Basically, yet is does. But this is actually a good thing as it protects the finish. The pores, or surface texture, of gel coat are much larger than those in paint and oxidation can really creep down in there. As gel coat ages, and yours is very old as far as usable gel coat life goes, those pores open up more and become more prone to oxidizing. Wet sanding can help speed through really bad oxidation, but it usually comes with the negative effect of causing those pores to open even more, and quicker. In the end it just compounds the problem

Does the Flagship wax dry to a white haze or more like the NXT More like NXT. Just apply it nice and thin and it will haze over lightly and remove very easily. It dries quite quickly too.

Would the Ultimate Protectant work on gelcoat?While it wouldn't hurt anything, it most likely would not give you the result you were looking for. Best to stick to Flagship Premium or Flagship Cleaner Wax for optimum results.

Would waxing the bottom cause more drag?In theory, waxing the hull should produce less drag. But if you can actually detect any difference in drag, either positive or negative, just from sitting at the helm and cracking open the throttle then you possess a level of sensitivity heretofore unheard of in the human species.

[hemi]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

Thanks Mike, for the quick reply and great answers! Although I may challenge that last answer. I do believe it is theorized that waxing the bottom will actually slow the boat more than having a slightly rougher bottom . Many performance boaters believe that an unwaxed bottom breaks the surface tension to the water . Many even wet sand the last portion of the bottom and leave wax off of that part!
I am going to purchase all my materials this week and start the detail as soon as this snow melts. I will try to post some before and after pics!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

Now the wet sanding kind of makes sense - if you've ever wet sanded paint with a very fine paper and then ran your hand over it the feel is extremely slick. This is due to there being less surface for your hand to come in contact with. One would think that waxing would also make the finish slicker to the touch, which in fact it does. Why this wouldn't translate into a slicker surface for the water, well......

But let's say there is a gain, any gain. What does it really matter in terms of performance for routine use? We see guys on car forums debating performance differences between spark plug gaps of .035 vs .032, tire pressure differences of less than a pound, or performance gains provided by one synthetic oil over another. If you're chasing a world championship in some form of motorsport or another then minute differences make plenty of sense as every 1/100th of a second matters. But for everyday use? Hey, we've had people call us up and swear they're getting 3mpg better fuel economy with their car after using our wax. We know that is simply not possible from the wax alone, but they insist (and quite vigorously!!) that it is indeed because of our wax.

[Phil Lovelady]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

Hemi,

I would personally recommend using Megs M91 for very oxidized portions of the project with a rotary and a wool pad. It cuts much faster than the color restorer. I just did a 22' Hydra Sports center console boat and it was in HORRIBLE condition on the deck, inner walls, and console. The M91 cut through it just fine, but still took quite a bit of time. I wet sanded the really bad areas (mainly any surface facing upwards towards the sun) with 1000 grit paper then proceeded to compound it. This saves a lot of time and product in the long run! I was on this boat for a WEEK! But in the end, it was a new boat again! As far as the black sides, I think you are on the right track for the best results as Mike stated above! I prefer to wax the hull as far as I can reach just because it looks WAY better and "complete". Performance is all in your head unless you are doing extreme comparisson testing. Although, I swear my car drives better after every time I detail it!!!

[hemi]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

Thanks Phil,I will try M49 first on my test area if I dont get the desired results I will move up to M67 or M91. I really dont want to wet sand if I can help it as wet sanding might lead to faster oxidation on black gelcoat. I figured Id start with the least aggressive and move up to a more aggressive approach if I dont get desired results.
I do wax most of the bottom ,just not the last 4 foot before the transom and up to the first chine. I wet sand this section.
I am very obsesive compulsive with 2 things Detailing and Fast boats !

[Innovative Detailing]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

I am very obsesive compulsive with 2 things Detailing and Fast boats !

I plan on doing some spring polishing as well on my 2001 Eliminator. The boat is in prestine condition, purchased her brand new and had it custom built for me. I keep it garaged along with 2 five gallon rubbermaid containers that I leave along side of the trailer. Reason for this is that the heat absorbs the water (gets to be 125 degrees in the garage) , this way my vinyl does not get dry or rotted. I have religiously washed it after every use, (only used in fresh water) and for the hard water spots I use Meguiar's M47 (Hard water spot remover) & Last touch after ever use, Recently I started to notice especially on the back transom because it is a dark purple fade, that the back end and part of the top rails in the rear are beggining to oxidize (Could this have been caused by the M47?) this is the only area I use the M47 due to the dark color and visible water spots. I have consulted with a gel coat repair shop in Lake Havasu about this when I had the bottom of my hull tuned. They told me just to colorsand and buff, but I also am hesitant to do so.....I am thinking of just using the following .....

I did alot of testing of the above product on my boat for Meguiar's in early 2002 before it was launched, sure beats a vineger wash or Ducky! But I am just a little concerned with this happening...

Rotary

W7204 w/M105
W8204 w/M205

D/A

W8204 w/M205
W9204 W/Flagship Premium Wax

Here is a photo, not sure if you can see the oxidation on the rear transom, it's maintly on the horizontal flat areas right below the rear hatch and it extends to the upper rails on both sides on the rear as well....

[hemi]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

Eliminators are more popular on the west coast, but a few 26 foot and larger ones starting to show up here on the east coast. I always liked the Eliminators,Halletts,and the Schiada line of boats. I would kill to have a twin turbo 21 foot Schiada.

Very impressive website WOW!!

[Innovative Detailing]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

I agree Eliminator Boats have a tremendous presence here on the West Coast. Mine is actually a 22 EagleXP open bow w/a 454 mag & Bravo 1, it has about 460 hours and has been 100 % turnkey never a problem. Hallets Schiada, great brands as well, you definately cant go wrong....and a twin turbo 21 footer, better get a pilots license that boat is gonna fly!

And Hemi thanks for the compliment on my website!! I appreciate this very much! as you can tell, it my passion....

[hemi]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

Hemi,

I would personally recommend using Megs M91 for very oxidized portions of the project with a rotary and a wool pad. It cuts much faster than the color restorer. I just did a 22' Hydra Sports center console boat and it was in HORRIBLE condition on the deck, inner walls, and console. The M91 cut through it just fine, but still took quite a bit of time. I wet sanded the really bad areas (mainly any surface facing upwards towards the sun) with 1000 grit paper then proceeded to compound it. This saves a lot of time and product in the long run! I was on this boat for a WEEK! But in the end, it was a new boat again! As far as the black sides, I think you are on the right track for the best results as Mike stated above! I prefer to wax the hull as far as I can reach just because it looks WAY better and "complete". Performance is all in your head unless you are doing extreme comparisson testing. Although, I swear my car drives better after every time I detail it!!!

Started on the black sides ended up using M67,M45,Flagship Wax.
Applied M67 with a rotary and 7207 foam pad, then used M45 with an 8207 pad, waxed by hand.

This was quite a step up from my original plan but it looks great !
I will most likely have to move up to M91 on the deck as you suggested !

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

Hi Dave..... sorry that this one got past us for a bit, but we do want to address it for you:

I have religiously washed it after every use, (only used in fresh water) and for the hard water spots I use Meguiar's M47 (Hard water spot remover) & Last touch after ever use, Recently I started to notice especially on the back transom because it is a dark purple fade, that the back end and part of the top rails in the rear are beggining to oxidize (Could this have been caused by the M47?) this is the only area I use the M47 due to the dark color and visible water spots. I have consulted with a gel coat repair shop in Lake Havasu about this when I had the bottom of my hull tuned. They told me just to colorsand and buff, but I also am hesitant to do so.....

M47 Hard Water Spot Remover is essentially an all purpose type cleaner with some unique ingredients added for this specific purpose. Very regular use without a good wax follow up may prove, over time, to be a bit harsh. After 9 years of doing this, especially with all the other things going on with that part of the boat (usually pretty heavy sun exposure, higher than normal water splash, engine exhaust, etc) you're bound to see more degradation of the surface here than elsewhere on the boat. Yes, M47 does offer a bit of protection, but it's not on a par with a proper wax. Last Touch as a follow up will maybe add to the shine, but it's not really offering any protection.

We would suggest that you buff the area with M44 Color Restorer (it's doubtful that you really need to sand the area, and sanding on gel coat can actually set you up for more issues down the road) or, if really needed, M49 Oxidation Remover. From the looks of it, M44 should be more than sufficient -after all, with you running the buffer it's going to be in very good hands! You'll definitely want to apply a coat of wax after doing this. While M63 Flagship Premium Marine Wax would be our number 1 choice, feel free to use whatever quality wax you like.

In the future, if you're just dealing with fresh water spots rather than badly set in spots, you might want to switch to either our M52 Quik Clean or our new M94 Flagship Ultimate Detailer - both are less aggressive than M47 and should more than adequate for fresh water spots. For the fastest way to apply a wax coating after using either of these, give our Ultimate Quik Wax from our consumer line a try. It is super easy to use and contains some unique hydrophobic polymers that are surprisingly tenacious.

Hope that helps you out.

[hemi]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

Couple of pics, turned out pretty good for 3o year old gelcoat

[hemi]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

sides

[hemi]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

[hemi]

Re: Detail questions on black boat

The M67 worked great with a 7207 cut pad ! Thanks for the input guys! Turned out great for a 1979 boat with 30 year old gelcoat !