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  • #16
    Just as I thought, a MB BASHER. Any owner of a 211 must pay attention to ALL the facts and not just the ‘‘alleged’’ SBC braking problems and speculation the MB thrashers are propagating. There have been two recalls carried out to improve the system, and to me that is a plus. Rest assured Mercedes-Benz are clearly monitoring the WHOLE car. The fact of the matter is, the current production E class is one of the safest, if not THE SAFEST vehicle ever produced, PERIOD. That’s why I chose to put my family in one.

    I have no idea of the real circumstances behind this reported incident and can only go by what has been said, however if there was a problem with that E’s braking system then surely Daimler Chrysler would buy that car back so quickly we would not even have time to blink. It is in their interest to find out what went wrong, how it went wrong and most important, how to rectify it.
    The vehicles are fitted with numerous ‘‘black boxes’’ and I would suspect they know the real cause of this incident, and by their attitude I would respectfully suggest they believe the cause is NOT the brakes?

    In the Europe the most common van by a country mile is the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter, it is the work horse of all the different delivery companies, couriers etc, plus the backbone for emergency services, namely ambulances, and the numerous different types of Police vans. A number of weeks ago it was alleged at a coroners court that this vehicle had an inherent problem with the braking system. The Coroner wished to bring this fact to the attention of Mercedes-Benz UK. After this happened, drivers began refusing to drive their vans because they were not happy with the ‘‘feel’’ of the brakes. Of the vehicles inspected EVERY one had been neglected and the brakes were worn out!!! The vehicle in question was four years old and had covered in excess of 600,000 miles. The company had stated it was regularly serviced, but NOT by a dealer (Hence no proof). At the time of the incident it was raining, the vehicle was speeding and the driver braked violently whilst negotiating a bend!!! Surprise, surprise the vehicle crashed. They are the FACTS, but a brake balancing valve was corroded and the coroner elected to blame that?? My point here is that there are thousands and thousands of these Sprinter vans on the highways, yet they are not pirouetting off the roads.

    The same remarks apply to the E-class 211 and the SBC issue. If there was a problem doesn’t anyone think it strange that there are not hundreds perhaps thousands of folks complaining. Yes there are reported problems, but we don’t know the REAL reason. SBC is electronically controlled and it is possible that there might be the odd defective valve\transistors or piece of wire etc. A number of Police Forces in the UK use the 211 as response vehicles and they thrash the living daylights out of them for a minimum of three years or 300,000 miles! If there was a problem with the braking system, does anyone honestly believe they would still be using them.

    European nations have for years specialized in conspiracy theories, so there will always be those that will never accept that the SBC system is the best thing since brakes were invented! If this system was as poor as we are being told, then why is it fitted to the SLR?

    The US system is a cut down version of SBC and sadly it has none of the bells and whistles that are fitted to the European version, and that’s a shame. It is alleged that this is because of the litigation minded residents of our country, but I would very respectfully suggest it is purely COST $$$. SBC is a very very expensive system, Daimler Chrysler are struggling to keep the costs of this vehicle down and keep cutting back on the ‘‘standard’’ features that come with this excellent vehicle. I consider the early 2004 models to be the best value and since then the standard goodies have slowly been removed from the model specification.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      Just as I thought, a MB BASHER...
      No, just an objective automotive journalist. For me, it is only a product that needs to perform. I assess exactly that.
      I love MB styling, and the innovative force of the company. The product quality however is miserable, unacceptable.

      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      There have been two recalls carried out to improve the system, and to me that is a plus. Rest assured Mercedes-Benz are clearly monitoring the WHOLE car...
      I'd rather market a technically ready product. The customers are not free test drivers for a company; constantly refining an underdeveloped product.

      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      The fact of the matter is, the current production E class is one of the safest, if not THE SAFEST vehicle ever produced, PERIOD. That’s why I chose to put my family in one...
      I wish you well...

      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      ...if there was a problem with that E’s braking system then surely Daimler Chrysler would buy that car back so quickly we would not even have time to blink...
      Yes. MB quite often does that. (If you speak German, Google a bit, looking for "wandlung, gewandelt, probleme, Mercedes-Benz)

      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      The vehicles are fitted with numerous ‘‘black boxes’’ and I would suspect they know the real cause of this incident...
      Sorry to say that but the error codes themselves are sometimes faulty, and there are problems which are still persisting immediately after the error code resetting.

      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      In the Europe the most common van by a country mile is the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter, it is the work horse of all the different delivery companies, couriers etc, plus the backbone for emergency services, namely ambulances, and the numerous different types of Police vans... there are thousands and thousands of these Sprinter vans on the highways, yet they are not pirouetting off the roads.
      Yes. These trucks have a way more simple brake systems. Yet these vehicles are by far the weakest links in the already sad MB quality chain. Don't be surprised when screws unwind themselves, etc. Spanish production quality is awful.

      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      Yes there are reported problems, but we don’t know the REAL reason. SBC is electronically controlled and it is possible that there might be the odd defective valve\transistors or piece of wire etc...
      We know the real reason: communication error between the electrical components. We should consider the car's electric/electronics as a whole, serving one goal: reliable, stable, safe operation. Not only MB has these problems but almost every European high-class car with enough feature content. I wouldn't buy a VW Phaeton, Audi A6/A8, BMW 5/7, Bentley Continental GT/Flying Spur just because of these issues.

      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      European nations have for years specialized in conspiracy theories, so there will always be those that will never accept that the SBC system is the best thing since brakes were invented! If this system was as poor as we are being told, then why is it fitted to the SLR?
      Interesting that an American says that, but whatever. No it is NOT! The No Spin Zone is Bill O'Reilly's specialty. I am sad because this system is in the SLR. On paper, the whole thinking is wonderful. Yet in everyday life, it *****. The brakes are grabby, have no feel and unreliable enough to start MB's one of the greatest recalls in history. BTW this synthetic feel issue affects Toyota's (super reliable) electrohydraulic brake system built into the JDM Lucida/Estima, and various hybrids, including the Prius.

      Originally posted by KLENBORE
      The US system is a cut down version of SBC and sadly it has none of the bells and whistles that are fitted to the European version, and that’s a shame. It is alleged that this is because of the litigation minded residents of our country, but I would very respectfully suggest it is purely COST $$$. SBC is a very very expensive system, Daimler Chrysler are struggling to keep the costs of this vehicle down and keep cutting back on the ‘‘standard’’ features that come with this excellent vehicle.
      Ahem. Yep. Purely costs. Watered down (causing further costs) for the most important market. Yeah. Of course.
      Mercedes-Benz throws away SBC. NONE of its future cars will have this option. But, MB wants to save almost all of the SBC features and functions - with a brand new, mechanical-hydraulic system. This needs even more complexity, even more gizmos, so the cost point is not relevant. But let's assume it will function better. What the European carmakers need, is a holistic approach, to let them make that kind of products, that once they have manufactured and what their brands stood for.

      Taxi-facts (based on the poll of Stern; 546 taxi companies with 2434 cars):

      - 45% of them (34% of the formerly all-MB companies) planning to change brand
      - Quality and reliability is worse than other brands. Note: Quality 2.6, reliability 2.3. Branch average 2.1, 2.0. 1 being best, 10 being worst.
      - 62% thinks that MB cars are overpriced and other manufacturers offer better quality

      Summarizing their thoughts, they believe, that while the quality of MB sinks significantly, Chrysler gets the (cost) benefits - according to Thomas Meier, Union Investment.


      Links:

      http://www.hr-online.de/website/fern...cument_5518048 (German)



      Get the latest local Detroit and Michigan breaking news and analysis , sports and scores, photos, video and more from The Detroit News.






      http://www.autobild.de/aktuell/meldu...tikel_id=10234 (German)

      Comment


      • #18
        Man.....did this thread get hi-jacked or what? Very interesting reading though!!!!
        Black......the ONLY color!

        Comment


        • #19
          Just take it to hallman and have him outfit it with all the goodies... seriously tho dodge makes a better braking system study the stopping distances and you will discover this. Ill repost up some 60-0 and 100-0 times from road and track i dont have the magazine in my booth. Im not positive but i think that the viper and the srt 4 have better stopping times than a majority of the mercedes listed... i will update.

          Benz's are more of a status symbol than anything else... its cool my srt-4's brakes stopped me from hitting a deer this morning and i was doing about 60 mph. And my rear pads are in need of a change!!!! Too cold lately.

          I cant knock dc b/c i drive one, well other than the fact that they are overpriced. To each his own right?


          Neon Srt-4 ($21,780)
          60-0: 118 ft.
          80-0: 209 ft.
          Viper Srt-10 ($84,495)
          60-0: 112 ft.
          80-0: 197 ft.
          MB E320 ($50,360)
          60-0: 124 ft.
          80-0: 225
          MB SL65 AMG ($186,870)
          60-0: 115 ft.
          80-0: 203 ft.
          MB S500 ($86,530)
          60-0: 133 ft.
          80-0: 247 ft.
          MB SL500 ($98,365)
          60-0: 113 ft.
          80-0: 203 ft.
          MB SLK350 ($50,150)
          60-0: 114 ft.
          80-0: 202 ft.
          MB SLR McLaren a.k.a. exotic ($455,750)
          60-0: 107 ft. which ties the F430 Spider, V8 Vantage, and the Boxter S for the shortest stopping time from 60-0.
          80-0: 186 ft. best = 911 Carrera S Coupe 184 ft. Oh and the 911 gt 1 stopped from 80-0 in 154 ft!!!!!!! and from 60-0 98 ft.


          Sorry to burst your bubble but i guess stopping isnt as important as crash tests.

          Comment


          • #20
            When you factor in that just about any MBZ car is going to weigh nearly twice as much or more than the SRT-4 then they look a lot better. You just can't expect something that weighs 5000 pounds to be as nimble as a Mini can you? At any rate, put the cars on the track and load them with passengers. Watch the back of the MBZ and see how long you'll be able to see the AMG lettering on the back. I'm sure you won't be able to count long.
            Quadruple Honda Owner
            Black cars are easy!

            Comment


            • #21
              Mercs have good braking efficiency these days. But for the normal customer, the brake feel is an extremely important factor. A brake with a poor feel can generate excellent stopping distances, and a system with a good feel can be weak.

              Comment


              • #22
                Got a SLK350 for the wife this past year and love it ,no problems yet . Its black and looking good ,plus I got her hand me down vette. The MB is no vette but is a blast to drive .... There are alot of MB bashers out there.
                2004 MY C5 ,2005 SLK350[BLACK],.1999 Black Suburban .

                Comment


                • #23
                  lol you forgetting the SLR lol 60-0 Braking
                  107.00 ft. thanks to the brake flap thingie

                  it got 60-0 Braking in 103.00 ft. from MT
                  Patrick Yu
                  2003 Honda Accord
                  2008 Honda Accord EX-L V6

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Mojo, the SLK has no SBC brake so you are OK. The SLR is another story...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Ice cold MBZ Hater-ade!! $2.50 a bottle!!!!
                      Lew

                      "...will separate aircraft for food"

                      My Mercedes Benz S600

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Big NONO!

                        Without being brandophile, I want quality products only. For me, a car is just a bunch of different components, which must function as a well-designed whole. I don't care what brand is it and I am not interested in bhp, lb-ft, or other raw figures. If you want numbers, buy a Top Fuel Drag, because it is the most thrilling car based on the numbers it can generate.
                        When I assess, I won't accept flawed design, engineering or execution. A car is the sum of its parts. Nothing more. If it seems to transcend objectivity, it is because we can believe this or that.
                        Objectively, a Kia Rio's quality is now more consistent than some of the super dream brands.

                        Examples:

                        When you got 5 or more suppliers for an interior, you must ensure consistent quality in fittings, graining - and of course colors. Unlike here (MB E200K).



                        When you are a sophisticated customer, and you paid half a million Euros for your car, it can not be finished like that orange (Brabus Maybach 62):



                        You seriously think that you, as a new Ferrari F430 Spider owner will start to restore your car seeing those stitchings, shutlines or orange peel? The judges will throw you out from a Concours d'Elegance in 30 years, saying 'what a crappy restoration'... Nope, Sir, it is original...



                        Why does BMW Bangle up its designs? Some of their ideas are quite good, but this execution??? Flowing lines, matching planes, consistent fittings; ahamm...





                        Final word is: some will accept this kind of quality, some not. When you stuff 70-74 computers into a luxocruiser (BMW 7 or VW Phaeton), you must ensure that the data communication will function flawlessly. Interesting but the Lexus LS 430, with a similar feature content, does this task far more reliably - and with only 28-32 computers. I remember when we first track-tested the then new SL55 AMG, we needed to wait 2.5 hours for a technician armed with a laptop, just to be able to close the roof which hung halfway open.
                        Quality is not about luxury tales or brand perceptions. Quality is objective. I spent half of my life in my Daimler Double Six, looking for the soul, the aura... I grown up with a MB-phile father, and we used to drive lots of them from 190D to 600 SEL. But I couldn't find or feel anything special. But, the new A-class is the first MB since ages that truly feels like a quality automobile... Initial quality vs. long term quality... We'll see.

                        Comment

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