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Using #83 and #80, and getting your G100/PC to do the work of a rotary.

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  • Using #83 and #80, and getting your G100/PC to do the work of a rotary.

    I had an opportunity to help a pal today. Lee, a good guy (hi Lee!) asked me to stop over some day and show him some things about correcting paint defects; he has been considering a G100, but doesn't want to drop the $$ if it doesn't do what everyone says (ie, live up to the hype is a good way to put it, and I mean that honestly).

    By breaking the job into stages, and the products and pads into their different "brackets" of ability, I believe that you can successfully mimic a rotary's job with the PC. Your trade is time. Instead of going around the car in half an hour or an hour, this took about 3.5 hours total, with two people working on a small car. It's your call, of course, whether or not you want to do this. If I were working for money, I wouldn't do it this way, and if I were to do my own car again (it will never need this again though) I'd use the rotary. But, if all you have is a PC and some #83 and #80, you too can get these results. I mean, think about it. If someone told you you could cut a gully through a rock with a stream of water you would tell them him he was crazy, yet there's the Grand Canyon. Time. Time will compensate for lack of power.

    The subject car is a 2001 Miata in British racing green, a non-metallic clearcoated paint that is really a beautiful color. It has about 35k on the clock, and is garage kept and covered & stored in the winter.

    Upon inspection, the car was in pretty good condition. The only problem that needed correction was swirl, "dart", and spiderweb build up.

    We started with a thorough claying; the car was clean and the clay picked up very little residual debris. Because of the good condition I decided to leave the cutting pads in the bag.

    I'll use a spot on the door as the illustration for this article. I tried to take the pictures from the same angle; a couple times I missed, but overall I think it's accurate enough. Here is the spot to start:



    We started with the Meguiar's yellow pad and #83. DACP (as it's commonly called) is the workhorse of my cabinet, the Jerome Bettis. It is a very simple product, a diminishing abrasive, but it has a couple quirks that make it a real PITA if you don't avoid them.

    The most common mistake with a wax is that the user uses too much; the reverse is true with a polish. A common mistake with DACP is using too little, or working too large an area (which works out to the same thing). Put a nice sized star of product on the pad, or a nice spiral. Plan on working an area of about 4 square feet; that's a quarter of the hood, or half a door. Spread it around, and use speed 4. When you start, it should be about this thick:



    Half way done:




    Do your side/side, up/down, and diags, until it looks like this:




    You'll notice it's gone a little translucent, but it isn't dry yet; that's when you want to remove it. The SECOND most common mistake with DACP is working it too long, until it's dry; then it dusts and the pad itself has no lubrication and will start to mar the paint. The easiest way to remove it is to make LARGE swipes over the entire area, and then mop up the leftover with a second towel. When the first towel gets too damp, toss it in the cleanup pile. As the second towel gets damp with product, promote it to large swipes and start a fresh dry towel for the mop up.

    Because a PC is not a rotary, you might need to go over the area more than once. Don't be disgusted. You are trading time and labor for safety, the knowledge that you won't harm the paint. This is the area after two passes with DACP:




    Notice that the major marring is gone, but it's replaced with minor marring, a "fogging". So here we got out #80 Speed Glaze; that will remove the minor marring from the #83 and produce a nice, vibrant, colorful, deep finish. Lee used a polishing pad and the #80. The #80 is worked the same way as the #83; apply liberally, work a small area, wait until it gets a little bit clear, then wipe it off.

    The other side of the car, after one pass of #80 Speed Glaze:



    And, the obligatory reflections (both halogen and flourescent) and beauty shots, taken after applying #81 Hand Glaze:










    After I left, Lee applied a coat of NXT; I haven't seen it, I've never seen anything applied after #7 or #81 improve the look.


    Tom

    (Disclaimer: this tutorial has also been posted at Autopia, with instruction for using the Menzerna product on the driver's side. We did the driver's side of the car with #83 and then Menzerna polishes, and we did the passenger side of the car with #83 and #80. The #80 is essentially equal in effectiveness as the Menzerna IP, and it has the added advantage of being less finicky and easier to predict; the IP tends to be wet for a long time and then dry out in about 10 seconds. Most of the pictures of the passenger side of the car didn't come out well enough to use; the autofocus was picking up stuff in the foreground. Mea culpa. There are more pictures of the door handle area over there; the #80 side came out exactly the same, but I didn't want to mis-represent the pictures.)
    Last edited by Mosca; Jan 9, 2005, 08:00 PM.
    As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

  • #2
    Nice write up and pics DACP definately has a little learning curve, but once you play around with it it is hard not to pick it up every time. You know the results are going to be great and consistant every time you use it. DACP and SpeedGlaze are always my go to products

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    • #3
      Very helpful. Thank you very much. I see areas that I still need work in. Very good pics too.

      One question... Did you keep the PC speed set at 4 the whole time?

      I really didn't see the "fogging" that well. I guess around the light sources kind of.

      Thanks again.

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice write-up Tom, and way to go helping out a friend. As the signature line for another forum member reads...

        "Each one, teach one"

        I agree with you that using a dual action polisher, the right pads, products and techniques as well as committing the time necessary, you can get very close to the results a rotary can achieve, depending on the paint hardness and the depth of the deepest defects, while working with a tool that is much easier to use and dramatically safer for both the novice and pro's alike.

        The richness the #81 Hand Polish and the #7 Show Car Glaze can add to a paint is pretty hard to beat, often times a wax will not increase these results, however waxes like the NXT Tech Wax, Gold Class, #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax and even the #16 Professional Paste Wax can all add their own visual dimension in other aspects.

        One thing you might note to your friend and that is to apply two thin coats of the Tech Wax and not just one for uniform coverage and appearance to a job well done.



        Good Job!

        Mike
        Mike Phillips
        760-515-0444
        showcargarage@gmail.com

        "Find something you like and use it often"

        Comment


        • #5
          This picture shows it a little better. It's lighter, but the focus is off a bit.




          My reasoning is, this is like pausing at a certain time within a rotary's work. We're not trying to do all the work on one pass with one product, like we might with the more powerful machine. Here you are going over the area with the #83 a couple or three times, looking to see if there's more, etc. You use the pads and product to replace the serious marring with minor marring that the G-100 can handle.

          There's always going to be a limit somewhere. But, each machine removes paint, and each one will remove as much as you need. If the G-10 can remove a little bit of paint, then it can remove a little bit more, and a little bit more. Whatever amount needs to be removed to get the max gloss is the same; it doesn't matter what machine you use to remove it, unless you need to have the job done by noon.


          Tom
          As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

          Comment


          • #6
            I see the fogging much better.

            Your sig is that from the Christmas Story??

            Thanks again.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mike Phillips
              The richness the #81 Hand Polish and the #7 Show Car Glaze can add to a paint is pretty hard to beat, often times a wax will not increase these results, however waxes like the NXT Tech Wax, Gold Class, #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax and even the #16 Professional Paste Wax can all add their own visual dimension in other aspects.
              Yeah, I know that it's an opinion. It's just that every time I look at the car after glazing it, I wish I could freeze that look! My favorite for locking it in has always been #26, with NXT next, but the new Gold Class might leapfrog the NXT and maybe even the #26!

              Us weekend guys, the safety is most important. What I see a lot of is people getting the G100/PC and thinking that the job then becomes easy; it doesn't. It becomes doable. What was truly impossible (given non-glacial time allowances) now becomes possible within a finite and comprehensible amount of time. But it's still a lot of work this way. The only way to make it easy is to invest in the power of the rotary, and go to work on learning how to use it.

              This is the safe way!


              Tom
              As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Great write-up and great results, Tom. I found the pictures at each stage of the process to be extremely helpful! You demonstrated for us at which point the #83 should be wiped off and that is one of the key secrets to getting the best results with it.


                RamAirV1
                2015 Dodge Charger R/T Scat Pack 392Granite Crystal
                2006 GTO Impulse Blue

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                • #9
                  Mike can we make this a sticky please sir. It's a very helpful and informative thread. Almost a must read for new members who can't or haven't attended a Saturday class.

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