1968 Chevy Camaro Convertible

[OctaneGuy]

I was at a holiday party on Sunday when I bumped into an old friend of mine. As we began talking about cars and things, and I told him what I do with paint, he told me about his "problem" finish on his 1968 Camaro. The paint was a single stage green metallic paint (no clear). The finish was completely flat and hazy. He said he caused the problems with a buffer. He paid a detailer at a car wash to "fix" it, and he said it only looked for for a short time (less than an hour) before the hazy look returned. Everyone he talked to said it had to be repainted!

So I offered to take a look at this car. I took this around 10PM at night.



I consulted with some friends and they felt it was far too gone to work on it. Not being convinced, I asked him to stop by and we would do a test spot.





Here it is. It was washed with my new Karcher pressure washer, soaped with NXT Car Wash.


I taped down my MF for the test spot


A little bit of light buffing with M80 and my PC, and I confirmed I was looking at a single stage paint finish.


Amazingly I could begin to see a reflection!


I tried some M83 and decided that wasn't aggressive enough, I pulled out the rotary and used a yellow pad with M80 and this is what I got.


By this time we were both convinced this could be fixed. He asked me to finish the trunk area. Check out this reflection shot. M21 has already been applied.


I only did the trunk lid, so notice how the head of the reflection disappears?


Another reflection shot, comparing the newly polished trunk lid to the rear of the car that's untouched.


One more...



This was done using the Rotary and M80, then the PC with M83 followed by M80, followed by M21. It was interesting because the finish was so hazed that you couldn't see the beautiful metallic flakes. But the polishing also revealed a lot of swirls, and only with a lot of pressure with M83 and the PC did the swirls begin come out. I found working with a new pad helped reduce the effort as well.

As the second owner, his car has never looked this good before. We're scheduled for Friday to complete the car. He left today with a huge grin on his face.

To be continued! (See Page 2 of this thread for the rest)

[Tom Weed]

I'm impressed... That's quite a transformation in that small area. I wouldn't of believed from the pics that car could be buffed out. Can't wait to see the finished product.

Nice Job

Tom

[OctaneGuy]

Thanks! This was my first time really working with single stage paint. I noticed it doesn't get as glossy as paint with a clear coat, but it still looks good, especially comparing what it used to look like.

Richard

Originally posted by Tom Weed
I'm impressed... That's quite a transformation in that small area. I wouldn't of believed from the pics that car could be buffed out. Can't wait to see the finished product.

Nice Job

Tom

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Richard,

Looks great!

Now that's what I call a "car!" I am anxious to see the rest of it!

I actually like working on Single Stage paints. The resultant gloss/finish is more dependant on the paint quality. With a great paint job, SS paints can look awesome. Some even look a little richer than BC/CC, especially deep reds and blacks!!! IMHO.

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

Looks good Richard!

Just so everyone knows, I was one of the people that told Richard I didn't think it would buff out... but, I was under the false impression that the car had been repainted with a basecoat/clear coat system and when I saw the white paint, thinking this was clear coated I figured it was to far gone.

That said, I did mention it would be worth doing a test spot to see what could be done. Looks like a lot can be done!

One tip for working with single-stage metallic finishes...

Be careful not to buff to much, it's possible with a metallic single stage to remove too much paint in some places so that when you stand back and look at the finish in bright light you'll see what we call Tiger Stripes. This will typically be in the direction of how you moved the rotary buffer over the horizontal surfaces.

When paint becomes severely oxidized, in an attempt to remove all of the oxidation to get down to a solid base, you can remove to much paint in some areas and these areas will contrast, or standout against adjacent areas where you remove less paint.

The effect can look like stripes in the paint. As you remove more paint on a darker color like this Camaro has, the areas you buff to much will lighten. You often times will not see this as you're buffing the car as you are too close to the project. It's when you back the car out into brighter light and stand back that the effect can be seen.

The safe approach is to take your time and move the rotary buffer in a couple of different directions for the paint cleaning step.

Best of luck with this detail, it looks like a fun project to me.

Also, is the convertible top vinyl?

[Tom Weed]

Just to add on SS paints, I did a Black Toyota RAV this past summer that was SS and it had to be the best looking black finish I've seen. My Grand Prix is black and didn't have the Pop that little SUV had.

[Tim Lingor]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips


That said, I did mention it would be worth doing a test spot to see what could be done. Looks like a lot can be done!

One tip for working with single-stage metallic finishes...

Be careful not to buff to much, it's possible with a metallic single stage to remove too much paint in some places so that when you stand back and look at the finish in bright light you'll see what we call Tiger Stripes. This will typically be in the direction of how you moved the rotary buffer over the horizontal surfaces.

When paint becomes severely oxidized, in an attempt to remove all of the oxidation to get down to a solid base, you can remove to much paint in some areas and these areas will contrast, or standout against adjacent areas where you remove less paint.

The effect can look like stripes in the paint. As you remove more paint on a darker color like this Camaro has, the areas you buff to much will lighten. You often times will not see this as you're buffing the car as you are too close to the project. It's when you back the car out into brighter light and stand back that the effect can be seen.

Excellent point Mike!!! Some SS metallics can also take on a blotchy look. Though I am not sure, but I believe it has to do with the way the metallic paint is sprayed as the metallic looks more even after being sprayed (hence the reason that metallic touch-up paint will stand out more as the metal flake tends to sit on top compared to being sprayed). But if you remove too much, some of the metallic flake is muted leaving blotchy spots or as you say "Tiger Stripes".

Tim

[SpoiledMan]

Very rewarding! My sister has a Black Onyx Lexus IS and it is the most rewarding car to polish on the planet!

[Mike Phillips]

I've seen Tiger Stripes where the cause was how the paint was sprayed and the way the metallic flakes laid down, and I've seen Tiger Stripes from over-buffing, so both can be a cause and effect.

[OctaneGuy]

Thanks Mike and Tim,

You know I think I encounted some of what you are talking about. The customer actually pointed it out to me during the final wiping of M21. On certain parts of the lid, the areas that I worked least on--as I was trying to stay away from the edges and high points, you could see little patches of dark reflection. It wasn't darker paint, it was more of a darker reflection. At the time, there was a tree blocking the sun, and I thought MAYBE a shadow was being casted from the tree.

I'll have another look on Friday, but even knowing these "tiger stripes", the effect from what it looked like before to now seeing the metallic flakes and swirl marks being visible because it was hidden by the hazy matte finish prior, is astounding. I will definitely keep the tips in mind as I work on the hood--the next major section of haziness.

btw, I sent the customer the link to this thread, so he may post something later tonight.

Richard

Originally posted by 2hotford
Excellent point Mike!!! Some SS metallics can also take on a blotchy look. Though I am not sure, but I believe it has to do with the way the metallic paint is sprayed as the metallic looks more even after being sprayed (hence the reason that metallic touch-up paint will stand out more as the metal flake tends to sit on top compared to being sprayed). But if you remove too much, some of the metallic flake is muted leaving blotchy spots or as you say "Tiger Stripes".

Tim

[OctaneGuy]

Haha Mike, I was trying to keep you anonymous!!! LOL

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Looks good Richard!

Just so everyone knows, I was one of the people that told Richard I didn't think it would buff out...

Thanks for the tip. That's a good thing to know!

One tip for working with single-stage metallic finishes...

Be careful not to buff to much, it's possible with a metallic single stage to remove too much paint in some places so that when you stand back and look at the finish in bright light you'll see what we call Tiger Stripes. This will typically be in the direction of how you moved the rotary buffer over the horizontal surfaces.

Thanks!! Yes, it's definitely a fun project! Can't wait to finish it off! Yep, that's a vinyl top. I actually used some #39 to remove some wax splatter.

Best of luck with this detail, it looks like a fun project to me.

Also, is the convertible top vinyl? [/B]

[sneek]

ill be doing one of those when it gets warm in calgary ...hopefully

[Setec Astronomy]

Wow, pretty amazing damage, and recovery. Did he let on how he hazed it up like that?

And about the tiger striping, etc. That's very interesting; my recollection is that SS metallics became common in the 70's and that it was always a problem when body shop work was done to try to match the metal flake. Kind of the same way the body shop painters now have to try and match the factory orange peel, they used to have to try to match the flake orientation in the paint with some combination of spray gun agitation and layer thickness (a thick layer would allow the flake to settle out more before it dried, giving a different appearance).

That whole problem seems to have gone away with the BC/CC finishes.

[RDVT4ME]

Nice work Richard!

I bet you're really glad that you now have a rotary. The right tools for the right job.

Get lots of practice on SS paint because we have another one coming soon (yellow 66 corvette- see showcargarage). This is an all original car and will be a real challenge due to all the angles and corners on this body style.

[OctaneGuy]

Hi Bob!

Thanks Bob!

yeah, I've gotten a lot of use out of the rotary. I'm really glad I made the jump. The PC has become my "finishing tool", and the rotary is my favorite.

Definitely entered a different league once I became proficient with it.

re: 66 Corvette
I just found the thread. I missed that part of it. OMG, that's beautiful!! I can see how that'll be challenging. Wow.

Richard

Originally posted by RDVT4ME
Nice work Richard!

I bet you're really glad that you now have a rotary. The right tools for the right job.

Get lots of practice on SS paint because we have another one coming soon (yellow 66 corvette- see showcargarage). This is an all original car and will be a real challenge due to all the angles and corners on this body style.