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**zey** · Jan 16, 2006, 05:19 AM

Hey Tim, the pad I'm using is Meguiar's OEM microfiber pad. It's not available on the shelf, and it's mainly OEM for auto manufacturer. You can check it out with Meguiar's if they know about this product. The pad started clean white. The reason why I use this MF pad is because I want to avoid product sweating which I've mentioned in another post.

**Tim Lingor** · Jan 16, 2006, 05:22 AM

Hi Zey,

I removed my post as I have referred this thread to Mike.

I still have no idea why you are having product sweating as that has not been an issue for me and I have gone through probably 4 containers of #21. I have got a slight amount of sweating when it was really humid, but I get that with other products as well. Strange....

Tim

**zey** · Jan 16, 2006, 05:26 AM

Tim, thanks alot. For your information, we have very polluted environment over here, plus the humidity is extremely high. As for my other car which I wash 3 times a week, the MF pad would look completely purplish if I ever apply M21 on it. So washing makes a huge difference in the environment I live. Detailing freaks over here wash their ride daily.

**Mike Phillips** · Jan 16, 2006, 05:55 AM

Getz,

What are the problems you're experiencing?

**zey** · Jan 16, 2006, 05:57 AM

Mike, what kind of problems are you referring to?

**Mike Phillips** · Jan 16, 2006, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by zey
Mike, what kind of problems are you referring to?

My mistake, I thought your post was to discuss something that was causing problems?

**zey** · Jan 16, 2006, 06:01 AM

My post is actually to highlight how much I love about the mild cleaning agent contained in the M21. I didn't have time to perform M80/W-8006 to thoroughly prep the paint before applying sealant. So I guess this is my shortcut which I do not recommend but it does satisfy me when I'm lacking of time.

**Mike Phillips** · Jan 16, 2006, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by zey
My post is actually to highlight how much I love about the mild cleaning agent contained in the M21. I didn't have time to perform M80/W-8006 to thoroughly prep the paint before applying sealant. So I guess this is my shortcut which I do not recommend but it does satisfy me when I'm lacking of time.

Well thank you for your comments.

A couple of things,

Cleaning is a combination of a number of factors,

* Product Choice
* Application Material
* Application Method - Hand vs Machine
* Time - How long you work an area
* Pressure - how light or hard you push

All of the above factors will have an influence on the cleaning process.

M21 does contain a small amount of cleaners. As we all know part of how well a wax or paint sealant performs, i.e. how well it adheres or bonds to the finish, is greatly influenced by how well the surface is prepared to accept the wax or paint sealant.

Simply put, a wax or a paint sealant will stick/bond/adhere to a clean surface better than a dirty surface. M21 is a product formulated for use by professional detailers. It is not intended to be a one-step cleaner wax for seriously neglected finishes, it can however be used in conjunction with the right pad choice, application method, as well as time and pressure to work on less than perfect finishes and still get great results.

For the above reasons and others, M21 is a versatile product and growing in popularity among both enthusiasts and professionals.

Some people like that it has some light cleaning ability for their intended needs while others like myself like that it only has a light amount of cleaning ability because I pre-clean the paint on the cars I work on and I don't need a cleaner in my wax or paint sealant.

**zey** · Jan 16, 2006, 06:23 AM

The following steps were taken on 30th December 2005 on the bonnet after washing with NXT Car Wash:

Mild Clay
M83/W-8006/RB (spot repair)
M80/W-8006/RB
M82/W-9006/RB
M21/MF/DA (No water contact within 12 hours)

**Mike Phillips** · Jan 16, 2006, 06:34 AM

I use this system in this order, however some finishes don't always need all of the cleaning steps, for example the compounding steps.

1) Evaluate the customer, determine whether or not I want to work for them.
2) Evaluate the finish both visually and with sense of touch, determine what products and processes will be necessary to achieve the goal.
3)Use the least aggressive product to get the job done.

After the above three things, assuming the work will continue,

M84/W-7006/RB - SS 1500 RPM
M83/W-8006/RB - SS 1500 RPM
M82/W-9006/RB - SS 1300 - 1500 RPM (Optional Step)
M80/W-8006/DAP - SS 5.0 OPM
M21/W-9006/DAP - SS 3.0 x 2 - Remove using MB/W-7006/DAP - SS 5.0 OPM

**zey** · Jan 16, 2006, 06:41 AM

Thanks for sharing Mike. In the MG training video, MG recommends M83/W-7006/RB before stepping up to M84/W-7006/RB. I'm not quite sure how effective is W83/W-7006/RB, can you please share?

**Mike Phillips** · Jan 16, 2006, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by zey
Thanks for sharing Mike. In the MG training video, MG recommends M83/W-7006/RB before stepping up to M84/W-7006/RB. I'm not quite sure how effective is W83/W-7006/RB, can you please share?

How effective any pad/product/tool combination is at solving a problem or correction an imperfection in the paint is dependent upon the problem or imperfection as it typically relates to the characteristics of the paint itself.

In other words, how deep are the defects you're trying to remove and how hard or soft, or perhaps a better term would be how buffable is the paint you're working on?

The recommendation is in keeping with Meguiar's philosophy,

"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

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M21 Cleaning Ability

M21 Cleaning Ability

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