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Moved from CorvetteForum at Meguiar's
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Moved from CorvetteForum at Meguiar's
I'm sorry, but I don't recall anyone ever saying that they Dawn washed their car each and every time they applied Zaino, or any other wax/polymer sealant. In fact, according to the instructions posted on line,Link to Zaino Application Instructions , "I would definitely recommend you remove the wax buildup on your paint. Just use Liquid Dawn (hand dishwashing liquid) as a car wash. It has a high alkaline content which cuts right thru carnauba wax, paraffin, silicone oils, etc. This will get your paint finish squeeky clean and wax free.
I don't advise making a habit of washing your car with Dawn. (my emphasis here)But for this scenario it's fine. High alkaline products like Dawn are tough on polishes. "
BE FAIR. If you're going to make a statement as all-encompassing as including the word repeatedly does, then make sure you include all the information, and that would include the other manufacturers instructions that plainly state "I don't advise making a habit of washing your car with Dawn." Period.
#20 Polymer Sealant does contain chemical cleaners. I don't remember seeing any of your posts anywhere asking me, if I had, I would have answered you. I like you have used a lot of #20 Polymer sealant. I applied a coat to every car I detailed as my first wax application after the cleaning and polishing process.
I've been using the screen name Len_A on Autopia for several years. I posted repeatedly about the inconsistancies in statements and emails from Meguiar's, regarding No. 20 and it's content, and also on layering No. 20, and never saw a post from you regarding this. I archive almost all my email, and I have links to the most recent posts on the subject, and there-fore I have the links to the posts: Link 1 Link 2 Link 3
I don't see responces from you on any of them. With all due respect, that's why I said I never saw you until the last couple of years. There's the credibility issue.
I read posts on Autopia and other forums once in a while about getting different answers from our Customer Care Team, but you have to understand, these guys get hundreds and even thousands of phone calls a week. They do a great job and Meguiar's offers the best customer care service of any car wax company in the business.
Ok, but don't you think we, as customers, deserve constistant answers to common questions, such as "Can you layer No. 20?" and "Can I use No. 20 on top of No. 7?" The first couple of time, those questions may be new, but come on, let's get the answers correct when the same questions keep coming in, both by phone and by email.
Again, here's the credibility issue.
Getting a catalog is as easy as calling our Customer Care Hotline and asking for one, I'm not sure why you ran into such a problem, but I can assure you your experience is the exception, not the rule.
I don't know why it happened, but it did happen, it took several emails to get one, and then when they showed up - ended up with three of them, and no where in the catalog was good ole No. 20. Go figure.
Your results mimic what I read all of the time, but they don't resemble my own results. I find most protection products ability to bead water start to fall off after the first couple of washes.
Really?!?!? Now you've lost any credibility with me, considering that I said in my first post that I got six months alone out of No. 20, and in my book of detailing definitions, water beading is the guage I use to judge when the wax or sealant needs to be reapplied.
I've been visiting Autopia since it's inception. Circa 1998, (I think). I have some of the original website printed out and saved in my collection of detailing resources. I was involved with e-mails to David Bynon in 1999 and 2000 while I worked at Hewlett-Packard that he may or may not remember, but point is I've been around, and I've been posting to Usenet Newsgroups since 1994.
Most of my posts on Autopia are posts that answer peoples questions with a focus on helping people to get the best results from their time, money and efforts. Once in a while I do try to intercept and help resolve product quality issues, but rarely do I have to deal with any damage control over Customer Care.
Now damage control in heated discussions on Autopia I do get involved in, I don't know if damage control is the best way to describe it, a lot of times its correcting bad information being posted.
Like I said above, check out those three posts, and that's just an example of what I was refering to.
Even though #20 does contain cleaners, applying a second coat, over the first would act to insure a uniform coating over the entire surface, but yes, the cleaners would remove some of the previous application. I my self wouldn't apply a second coat over the first coat but would apply a topper such as #26 or #16 instead. Your idea for a version of #20 without any cleaners is one that I have suggested myself. So were on the same page there.
Really? I'm going to emaail you a copy of an email I have from December, 2001, where the customer service rep says:
Since this is an almost three year old email, I've deleted the party's name and phone extension, but you'll be seeing my email soon.
I'm not sure why our credibility would be dropping with you, but you are entitled to your opinion. Thank you for joining our discussion forum, and letting us know how you feel. I will pass the link to this thread and your response to some people that I think will appreciate reading it, and I mean that sincerely.
If there is anything I can do for you in the future, please feel free to ask and I will go above and beyond the call of duty to accommodate you.
One, the above responces is why I have found a credibility problem with Meguiar's, and I like and use the products still. Here's a link to my photo gallery, and you 'll find where 've used Meguiar's plenty of times, as well as Zaino. Note the date on the Subaru - that was done with No. 20, and my sister says it still beads water. Photo Gallery
I may take you up on your offer of help. Then again, I may not.
Cheers.
Originally posted by Len_A
Mike, I have used the Dawn wash method on a half a dozen cars, prior to applying Zaino to them (the first time), and I have yet to dull the finish. Recently I started using Klasse All-In-One as my prep, then proceeded with Zaino, and haven't had a problem.
A few things about me first. One, I have been detailing my own, and my families cars, for over twenty seven years. I was, until two years ago, a religious Meguiar's user, especially the No. 20 Polymer Sealant. You know what got me to switch to Zaino? I couldn't get a straight answer from Meguiar's about whether No. 20 could be layered, which I have stated numerous times to Meguiar's, and on Autopia, was only to enhance No. 20's longevity (especially in a nasty salt filled Detroit winter), and whether No. 20 had cleaners in it, since I found a fifteen year old bottle of No. 20 in my garage, and the damn thing said nothing about cleaners. Guess what? I was only one of several people on the Autopia message boards who had the same experience in 2001 and 2002, namely getting several different answers to the same question on No. 20.
Three times I emailed Meguiar's in 2001 and 2002, and I go three different answers. Then I tried to get a catalog, in 2002, and again it was like pulling teeth. Took three months to fulfill a catalog request, and that was after several exasperated emails from me.
No more. I tried something else, and I'm happy with it. I used to get a good six months life out of No. 20. Now I get eight to ten months easily out of two applications of Zaino. Keeps beading water just fine, and that's after a winter of driving it through commercial car washes.
Mike, until people on the Autopia boards started really complaining about Meguiar's tech support in 2002, I never saw you on those boards before. Now, the last couple of years you show up, and half the time I find what you're doing is damage control. Meguiar's makes some excellent products, that I still use regularly, bit NXT ain't one of them, and will never be. Anything that "fills" swirls, in my experience, hasn't had the durability I'm looking for. Frankly, what Meguiar's needs is version of No. 20 without the cleaners in, so the user can put a second layer on, confident that the cleaners won't remove part or all of the initial application.
Until then, Meguiar's, and your, credibility, with me, is dropping like a stone.
Mike, I have used the Dawn wash method on a half a dozen cars, prior to applying Zaino to them (the first time), and I have yet to dull the finish. Recently I started using Klasse All-In-One as my prep, then proceeded with Zaino, and haven't had a problem.
A few things about me first. One, I have been detailing my own, and my families cars, for over twenty seven years. I was, until two years ago, a religious Meguiar's user, especially the No. 20 Polymer Sealant. You know what got me to switch to Zaino? I couldn't get a straight answer from Meguiar's about whether No. 20 could be layered, which I have stated numerous times to Meguiar's, and on Autopia, was only to enhance No. 20's longevity (especially in a nasty salt filled Detroit winter), and whether No. 20 had cleaners in it, since I found a fifteen year old bottle of No. 20 in my garage, and the damn thing said nothing about cleaners. Guess what? I was only one of several people on the Autopia message boards who had the same experience in 2001 and 2002, namely getting several different answers to the same question on No. 20.
Three times I emailed Meguiar's in 2001 and 2002, and I go three different answers. Then I tried to get a catalog, in 2002, and again it was like pulling teeth. Took three months to fulfill a catalog request, and that was after several exasperated emails from me.
No more. I tried something else, and I'm happy with it. I used to get a good six months life out of No. 20. Now I get eight to ten months easily out of two applications of Zaino. Keeps beading water just fine, and that's after a winter of driving it through commercial car washes.
Mike, until people on the Autopia boards started really complaining about Meguiar's tech support in 2002, I never saw you on those boards before. Now, the last couple of years you show up, and half the time I find what you're doing is damage control. Meguiar's makes some excellent products, that I still use regularly, bit NXT ain't one of them, and will never be. Anything that "fills" swirls, in my experience, hasn't had the durability I'm looking for. Frankly, what Meguiar's needs is version of No. 20 without the cleaners in, so the user can put a second layer on, confident that the cleaners won't remove part or all of the initial application.
Until then, Meguiar's, and your, credibility, with me, is dropping like a stone.
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Moved from CorvetteForum at Meguiar's
Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Sometimes it can be hard to see the dulling effect of a detergent wash on paint, especially if after washing you polish and protect it. Put it this way, if you took a car finish, and washed it repeatedly with a detergent wash, and didn't apply any polish or wax, but just continued to wash it, say weekly with the detergent wash, do you think it would get better looking, or worse looking?
Sometimes it can be hard to see the dulling effect of a detergent wash on paint, especially if after washing you polish and protect it. Put it this way, if you took a car finish, and washed it repeatedly with a detergent wash, and didn't apply any polish or wax, but just continued to wash it, say weekly with the detergent wash, do you think it would get better looking, or worse looking?
I don't advise making a habit of washing your car with Dawn. (my emphasis here)But for this scenario it's fine. High alkaline products like Dawn are tough on polishes. "
BE FAIR. If you're going to make a statement as all-encompassing as including the word repeatedly does, then make sure you include all the information, and that would include the other manufacturers instructions that plainly state "I don't advise making a habit of washing your car with Dawn." Period.
#20 Polymer Sealant does contain chemical cleaners. I don't remember seeing any of your posts anywhere asking me, if I had, I would have answered you. I like you have used a lot of #20 Polymer sealant. I applied a coat to every car I detailed as my first wax application after the cleaning and polishing process.
I don't see responces from you on any of them. With all due respect, that's why I said I never saw you until the last couple of years. There's the credibility issue.
I read posts on Autopia and other forums once in a while about getting different answers from our Customer Care Team, but you have to understand, these guys get hundreds and even thousands of phone calls a week. They do a great job and Meguiar's offers the best customer care service of any car wax company in the business.
Again, here's the credibility issue.
Getting a catalog is as easy as calling our Customer Care Hotline and asking for one, I'm not sure why you ran into such a problem, but I can assure you your experience is the exception, not the rule.
Your results mimic what I read all of the time, but they don't resemble my own results. I find most protection products ability to bead water start to fall off after the first couple of washes.
I've been visiting Autopia since it's inception. Circa 1998, (I think). I have some of the original website printed out and saved in my collection of detailing resources. I was involved with e-mails to David Bynon in 1999 and 2000 while I worked at Hewlett-Packard that he may or may not remember, but point is I've been around, and I've been posting to Usenet Newsgroups since 1994.
Most of my posts on Autopia are posts that answer peoples questions with a focus on helping people to get the best results from their time, money and efforts. Once in a while I do try to intercept and help resolve product quality issues, but rarely do I have to deal with any damage control over Customer Care.
Now damage control in heated discussions on Autopia I do get involved in, I don't know if damage control is the best way to describe it, a lot of times its correcting bad information being posted.
Even though #20 does contain cleaners, applying a second coat, over the first would act to insure a uniform coating over the entire surface, but yes, the cleaners would remove some of the previous application. I my self wouldn't apply a second coat over the first coat but would apply a topper such as #26 or #16 instead. Your idea for a version of #20 without any cleaners is one that I have suggested myself. So were on the same page there.
Len,
Thank you for your message and your interest in our products. That is
not true. There are no cleaners in the product to strip off wax. I would
actually recommend applying two coats onto your vehicle.
If you have any other questions feel free to write in at any time. If you
would like to talk to me personally, you can call me at 1-800-854-8073 ext.
13X.
Thank you,
XXX XXXXXXX
Meguiar's Surface Care Specialist
Thank you for your message and your interest in our products. That is
not true. There are no cleaners in the product to strip off wax. I would
actually recommend applying two coats onto your vehicle.
If you have any other questions feel free to write in at any time. If you
would like to talk to me personally, you can call me at 1-800-854-8073 ext.
13X.
Thank you,
XXX XXXXXXX
Meguiar's Surface Care Specialist
I'm not sure why our credibility would be dropping with you, but you are entitled to your opinion. Thank you for joining our discussion forum, and letting us know how you feel. I will pass the link to this thread and your response to some people that I think will appreciate reading it, and I mean that sincerely.
If there is anything I can do for you in the future, please feel free to ask and I will go above and beyond the call of duty to accommodate you.
I may take you up on your offer of help. Then again, I may not.
Cheers.
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