Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

[pcfxer]

Hello all,

I'm really getting frustrated with Meguiar's #83 DACP, I'm using it right now with the PC and W8006 pad. I spread it at speed 3 and work the product in until there is a light haze and this is done at speed 5. There are some mild, random scratches on the majority of panels on my particular project. Using the same process and pads with #80 Speed Glaze, I find that this combination is superior to the 83/8006 combination.

With #80 the majority of scratches are removed and the shine is greatly improved. I must note that I am using #83 and then following with #80. But, as mentioned above, #80 seems to be doing more work. I will try a small section with #83 and work it just before dry buff and then report back.

In the mean time, however, does anyone have some suggestions?

PS, it seems to me that these scratches will require the W7006.

[sneek]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

well you may be doing 2 things

1. too much product
2. you are not cleaning your pad enough

it sounds like you are working it in long enough, so try less product and clean your pad more often.

[acsuppa]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

Hay pcfxer, I'm having the same problem as you. I'm also getting getter results with #80. I wanted to try something a little more agressive on my wife's Jeep but after doing the hood, I desided to go back to #80. #83 seemed to be real dusty too. I applied #83 with a new W8006 pad the same way I've been applying #80. Oh well, I'll stick with #80.

[pcfxer]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

Well, I just cleaned up my pads really well and there wasn't that much product in the pad. I should be using #83 soon, but I will let my pads air dry, otherwise the backing seems to lose it's adhesion.

Next time around, I will take pictures and thoroughly document the process that I am taking.

[black240sx]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

Maybe the glaze in #80 is hiding the scratches very well, making it look like it's done more correction than it actually has.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

Some products work better than others on different paint systems while others are not as effective.

M83 doesn't offer the wettness of M80 and one of the things you should notice is that the pad won't rotate as well under pressure as it will with M80

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

Maybe the glaze in #80 is hiding the scratches very well, making it look like it's done more correction than it actually has.

Not if he's working the product correctly.

[black240sx]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

Not if he's working the product correctly.

What do you mean? Does the glaze component of #80 lose it's effectiveness if the product is worked thoroughly?

[pcfxer]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

I'm pretty sure that Mike is referring to the product being worked until it has broken down, but before dry buffing.

[sneek]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

#83 is harder to work with but it gets pretty amazing results!

What do you mean? Does the glaze component of #80 lose it's effectiveness if the product is worked thoroughly?

well #80 must have some kind of filling ability but it is almost always removing the defect not filling it. I guess you could test this by wiping the panel with window cleaner after you work on itBut you will lose the shine left by the polishing oils of #80. But you will lose the shine left by the polishing oils of #80.

[acsuppa]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

I guess I might give #83 another try sometime. Does anyone else find it to be real dusty? I guess it dries pretty quick. I wasn't working it very long and I noticed it was powdery.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

What do you mean? Does the glaze component of #80 lose it's effectiveness if the product is worked thoroughly?

No, what I mean is it's important to work any cleaner/polish or paint cleaner long enough to work the diminishing abrasive against the finish to remove small particles of paint and in effect remove the defect not merely fill it in.

On other forums there's always the usual blathering of M80 filling, not removing defects and all this does is show the poster is clueless about the product or lacking in their own skills and knowledge to work it properly.

[black240sx]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

I see. My point is that, depending on the paint and paint condition, #80 may not be strong enough to remove the defects. The glaze may hide that fact.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

I see. My point is that, depending on the paint and paint condition, #80 may not be strong enough to remove the defects. The glaze may hide that fact.

I often read comments by anonymous people on other forums that the glaze/polish/TS oils are filling in defects and not removing them, however, if M80 is not aggressive enough to remove the defects, in all the experience we have built-up, when inspecting your test spot, this should be apparent as you should see the defects that were in the finish to start with that you wanted to remove. Because if the defects are that serious/deep, no polish is going to fill them in to the paint that you cannot see them if you're looking for them.

If you have in fact removed these defects you will not see them at all, or you will see that the majority of the defects are gone and now only a few remaining deeper defects remain.

Any polish is limited to what it can actually fill-in to the point that the human eye cannot see with good lighting and with the active intent of inspecting the finish to see whether the defects are still there or not.

The point is this, if someone has defects in their car's paint that they want to remove, if M80 isn't removing them, then these defects are serious enough, i.e. deep enough that M80 is NOT going to fill them in to the point that a person looking to see if the defects are in fact removed is not going to see them.

The polishing oils used in M80 can fill in fine swirls and scratches just like a coat of Klasse SG, or P21S or even Zaino can fill them in, but it's certainly not going fill in deep swirls and scratches just like these three products won't.

The swirls in the below Lexus hood are deep swirls caused by a wool pad and probably a compound of some type, possibly something less aggressive but obviously something abrasive and with some bite.

Before


Hand applying M80 over the top of these swirls might act to mask them a little it, but in full sun like this you would still easily see them.

Here are two sections that we cleaned, (Clean or cleaned in Meguiar's 100+ year terminology means to remove below surface defects like swirls, not wash a car). The passenger side was done with 3 applications of ScratchX, followed by one application of Deep Crystal Polish and one application of NXT Tech Wax.

The driver's side section was done with one well worked application of M80 Speed Glaze and one application of NXT Tech Wax.

After




The swirls on the drivers side are gone. Not filled in. Had M80 not been aggressive enough to remove the swirls we would have noticed this in the garage with 25+ people watching each step of the process and inspecting using a swirl finder light.

If it wasn't working, the Instructor, experienced in how to remove swirls, not fill them in, would have explained to the class that M80 was not aggressive enough to remove these defects on this paint system using this process and would have 'again', over the course of our Detailing 101 class highlighted Meguiar's 100+ year philosophy of,

"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

and then added that if your first product and process of choice isn't working effectively enough, or fast enough for your expectations, then the next step would be to try or more aggressive product, pad or process and/or accept that it could be the defects are to serious/deep to be removed and it's now time to learn how to live with them or have the car repainted.

Does that make sense?


The filling ability of M80 or any companies compound, paint cleaner, cleaner/polish or pure polish and even a wax or some type of paint protectant is LIMITED in what it can do.

[acsuppa]

Re: Why is #83 not cutting as much as #80?

Wow Mike! You are definetly the man. I used #80 quite a few times and I think it's a great product. The more I use it, the better results I get. It is definetly all about using the right product and the right technique. I recenlty tried #83 because I thought I needed something more abrasive on my wife's Jeep. I ended up not liking #83 so I changed my pad and went back to #80. It's amazing to see the results that you get with #80 and any other product that you use.