Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

[Mary S]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

One other thing I forgot to mention, I had Gold Class liquid wax on my husband's car and took it through the automatic once, and the wax protection is still holding up great after a couple of months. I may wax it again soon because it has been that long but it doesn't need it as far as protection or water beading is concerned. I have taken care of the finish in the meantime with appropriate washing.

[Mary S]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

Honestly, if it didn't cost $5 a pop I would test how many times it takes going through a touchless basic wash before the wax is gone. The car wash association is just going to have to fund their own tests in their defense LOL! But I would predict, it would take more than 1, maybe 2 or 3, of course depending on what you had on there. The really durable waxes like Collinite 845 wax might last a bit longer. But 1 wash was enough to make a change in the texture of the wax.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

The bottom line is this: in the wintertime, you NEED to get the salt off of your paint. If it means stripping the wax off, then fine - you can just reapply. But the salt sitting on that paint will do more harm than good.

Obviously in the summer (or during fair weather) hand washing is the best medicine

Very to the point, and very true.

[Matt Majeika]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

The bottom line is this: in the wintertime, you NEED to get the salt off of your paint. If it means stripping the wax off, then fine - you can just reapply. But the salt sitting on that paint will do more harm than good.

Obviously in the summer (or during fair weather) hand washing is the best medicine

[spence82]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

I used to work at a touchless wash,and the owner was the biggest clean freak I have ever met,his cars where always spotless outside,inside,trunk,under the hood.All he would buy is black,nothing else,he got a new 04 Mach 1 and spent 2wks detailing before he even drove it.Anyway when the wash first comes on its the soap,usually 2 rounds.It is what is on the do it urself bays the pre-soak,which is by far the strongest soap,compared to the high presure soap.It is a very very strong detergent,and he always told me that it would strip the wax clean off.I would get free car washes there so I used them quit a bit,and they where just the basic ones with the dryer.No polishes or clear-coat protectants.And the water always would bead,so I don't really know what to believe,I'm sure they somewhat stip it off,probably depends on how often you wax it in between those automatic washes.

[Shizane2002]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

I have used the automatic car washed before and they have always stripped my car of the detailing agents I have used. This has been with various car washes in several states.

I refuse to ever use automatic car washes and I highly discourage anyone from ever using the "wax" and "wash" features at manual car wash bays. I have been using only water for years on a regular basis and iv e never had a problem since. A good and safe drying technique also helps ensure your paint is not damaged.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

What's the point anyway? Waxes eventually disappear from the finish of cars due to the sun, wind, rain and pollution. My last wash of late Fall includes waxing and I hope it lasts until the first wash of the Spring.

While it's very true that wax is a sacrificial barrier and it does slowly wear down, you don't want to wax on Sunday and then get the car washed on Thursday after a rain only to have that wax removed by a heavy detergent.

In your part of the country you'll be darn lucky to get 4 months out of any wax that time of year - New England winters are harsh on wax, no two ways about it.

[DogParkGuy]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

What's the point anyway? Waxes eventually disappear from the finish of cars due to the sun, wind, rain and pollution. My last wash of late Fall includes waxing and I hope it lasts until the first wash of the Spring.

[Mary S]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

You use the baggie test to see if your paint needs to be clayed. You use the squeak test (The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax) to see if it needs to be waxed. Obviously, if you're going to clay, you should wax afterward.

Sorry, Shane, thanks for your post! That is exactly the information I need for doing this test.

By the way, I grew up in Tennessee. My dad lives not far away from you in Heiskell.

[Mary S]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

My bad.... they are commonly used the other way around. Nonetheless, however you slice it you're putting some pretty harsh stuff on your paint and wax is not going to last a long time when exposed to it.


No, I meant this:



Actually, an alkaline wash will break down the wax and remove it, at least to some degree, whether there is any dirt on the surface or not. Body shops use a "wax & grease remover" to strip the existing paint free of these things as part of their prep. Detergents are designed to quickly cut grease on dishes, and anything that effectively cuts grease will also break down and remove wax as the two are actually fairly closely related. For years the folks at Zaino have advocated washing your car with Dawn (an effective grease cutting dish detergent) to remove all wax prior to using their product. Plenty of people have taken this to heart and use a dish detergent once a year or so to strip the paint bare.

Unless everyone has been totally wrong about Dawn all these years. Which they aren't - Dawn even states on their own website "Dawn is so effective in cutting grease on dishes that over the years, consumers have used Dawn on other greasy messes around their homes, from cleaning kitchen messes like grease build up on the stove range hood to oily spots in the garage. Dawn is not recommended for window cleaning, car washing, body wash or washing hair." (the bold is theirs, by the way).

Okay, thanks, Michael. I am still a little confused, but I think the best way to handle it is just to forget understanding the theory and test it out.

Ironically, my subversive motive for wanting to be able to use a touchless is to wash my husband's car, which is a daily driver that isn't garaged at all. It takes me about an hour to hand wash it. I would rather not have to do that all the time. But, it sounds like the attended friction wash may be a solution anyway.

Thanks for your help. I will let you know the results of any tests I do.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

Since the acid wash comes second, it will neutralize the alkaline wash, or better put they will neutralize eachother, but it is a moot point. By the time the power spray hits you will have something presumably neutral.

My bad.... they are commonly used the other way around. Nonetheless, however you slice it you're putting some pretty harsh stuff on your paint and wax is not going to last a long time when exposed to it.

I guess I don't know all the names, so:

1. baggie on hand rub paint feels rough, no wax/sealant protection;
2. baggie on hand rub paint feels smooth, wax or sealant protection is still there.

Is that the one you meant?

No, I meant this:

The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax


Also, if you are using a spray detailer and you notice it is getting harder to wipe off, it is probably time to re-wax.

Here's a prediction I have, that if the paint is dirty, especially grimy with road film, the wax may bind to the contaminants, and when you wash with an alkaline soap it releases the wax-dirt and washes it away along with some of the top layer of wax.

Actually, an alkaline wash will break down the wax and remove it, at least to some degree, whether there is any dirt on the surface or not. Body shops use a "wax & grease remover" to strip the existing paint free of these things as part of their prep. Detergents are designed to quickly cut grease on dishes, and anything that effectively cuts grease will also break down and remove wax as the two are actually fairly closely related. For years the folks at Zaino have advocated washing your car with Dawn (an effective grease cutting dish detergent) to remove all wax prior to using their product. Plenty of people have taken this to heart and use a dish detergent once a year or so to strip the paint bare.

Unless everyone has been totally wrong about Dawn all these years. Which they aren't - Dawn even states on their own website "Dawn is so effective in cutting grease on dishes that over the years, consumers have used Dawn on other greasy messes around their homes, from cleaning kitchen messes like grease build up on the stove range hood to oily spots in the garage. Dawn is not recommended for window cleaning, car washing, body wash or washing hair." (the bold is theirs, by the way).

[CieraSL]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

I guess I don't know all the names, so:

1. baggie on hand rub paint feels rough, no wax/sealant protection;
2. baggie on hand rub paint feels smooth, wax or sealant protection is still there.

Is that the one you meant?

You use the baggie test to see if your paint needs to be clayed. You use the squeak test (The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax) to see if it needs to be waxed. Obviously, if you're going to clay, you should wax afterward.

[Mary S]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

It's the alkaline presoak that might well do in your wax, depending on the pH. The alkaline presoak is also neutralizing the acid wash, whether they specifically state so or not.

Since the acid wash comes second, it will neutralize the alkaline wash, or better put they will neutralize eachother, but it is a moot point. By the time the power spray hits you will have something presumably neutral.

From their website they also state "Green Bean Boat Soap is a non-alkaline, non-wax stripping boat soap specifically designed for the marine industry." This sounds completely valid and the same thing can be said for our Marine Wash & Wax, Ultimate Wash & Wax and, with the exception of references to the marine industry, it can also be said for all of our soaps.

It definitely implies the alkaline wash will strip the wax and a neutral one won't. The main thing that caught my attention was that they said it would take the alkaline wash several washes to do it.

Shane's post above nails it.

I guess I don't know all the names, so:

1. baggie on hand rub paint feels rough, no wax/sealant protection;
2. baggie on hand rub paint feels smooth, wax or sealant protection is still there.

Is that the one you meant?

Here's a prediction I have, that if the paint is dirty, especially grimy with road film, the wax may bind to the contaminants, and when you wash with an alkaline soap it releases the wax-dirt and washes it away along with some of the top layer of wax.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

Michael, the wash company that I contacted in New York apparently first puts down an alkaline presoak to attack oils, then follows it with an acid presoak to attack dirt other than oils. They follow that with power wash then trifoam and rinse.

It's the alkaline presoak that might well do in your wax, depending on the pH. The alkaline presoak is also neutralizing the acid wash, whether they specifically state so or not.

I found this one reference to high alkaline soap and wax: Green Bean Boat Soap Wash & Shine is a micro-sheet of wax to begin with so using a high alkalinity soap will remove it in just a few washes.

From their website they also state "Green Bean Boat Soap is a non-alkaline, non-wax stripping boat soap specifically designed for the marine industry." This sounds completely valid and the same thing can be said for our Marine Wash & Wax, Ultimate Wash & Wax and, with the exception of references to the marine industry, it can also be said for all of our soaps.

Michael, may I ask, since beading is not a determinant of wax protection, what can you do to test for it? I would like to do a trial but I need to know how to tell if my wax has been stripped or partially stripped.

Shane's post above nails it.

[CieraSL]

Re: Touchless car washes and stripping of wax

Michael, may I ask, since beading is not a determinant of wax protection, what can you do to test for it? I would like to do a trial but I need to know how to tell if my wax has been stripped or partially stripped.

The Squeak Test - How to test for the presence of wax


Also, if you are using a spray detailer and you notice it is getting harder to wipe off, it is probably time to re-wax.