The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

[Alfisti]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

The Black Wax isnt SMAT.

It is just a very mild cleaner/wax like the A12 (red bottle), but with extra polishing oils.

I was under the impression that it WAS SMAT.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Black Wax and White Wax are indeed both SMAT abrasive cleaner waxes. But Black Wax contains very little of these abrasives while White Wax has a much higher abrasive load to it, making it a surprisingly potent cleaner wax.

As for defining "moderate", that's always a bit tricky because of how a large a variable the paint is. You can have similar defects that you might consider to be moderate on two different paint systems and you may very well need two different processes to correct them.

Bill, SwirlX is very mild, non aggressive stuff. The buffer you have is very non aggressive, too. Put those two together and you may well struggle to remove even moderate defects if your paint is on the hard side. Basically, you don't really know exactly how things are going to work until you start working on the paint. The paint will basically tell you what it needs as it will either respond very well to such a mild input, or it will just sort of sit there and do nothing (or maybe laugh in your face - and I hate when that happens!). In that case, you do need to step up to something with a bit more punch to it.

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Black Wax and White Wax are indeed both SMAT abrasive cleaner waxes. But Black Wax contains very little of these abrasives while White Wax has a much higher abrasive load to it, making it a surprisingly potent cleaner wax.

As for defining "moderate", that's always a bit tricky because of how a large a variable the paint is. You can have similar defects that you might consider to be moderate on two different paint systems and you may very well need two different processes to correct them.

Bill, SwirlX is very mild, non aggressive stuff. The buffer you have is very non aggressive, too. Put those two together and you may well struggle to remove even moderate defects if your paint is on the hard side. Basically, you don't really know exactly how things are going to work until you start working on the paint. The paint will basically tell you what it needs as it will either respond very well to such a mild input, or it will just sort of sit there and do nothing (or maybe laugh in your face - and I hate when that happens!). In that case, you do need to step up to something with a bit more punch to it.

Thanks for the reply! I appreciate all the commentary, and especially yours considering your vast experience with all types of correction challenges.

And, based on Top Gear's comments, it sounds like Hyundai uses relatively hard paint.

From what I hear, it sounds like I should move up to UC with a yellow MF cutting disc, followed by UP and my standby GC paste wax.

If I had purchased UC to begin with I wouldn't be dithering over the chemicals, but that's the way it is.

As I've posted before, I have to rely on touchless car washes for the wash step of the paint care cycle.

But it sounds like consumers like me have had success with claying, UC, UP and wax.

Appreciate all the info!

[davey g-force]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

From what I hear, it sounds like I should move up to UC with a yellow MF cutting disc,

Bill,

Do you mean UC with a yellow foam pad, or a MF cutting disc? Be aware that the latter combo is quite aggressive.

If you have both types of pads, try a test spot with a yellow foam pad first. If that doesn't work, then step up to a MF cutting pad..

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Bill,

Do you mean UC with a yellow foam pad, or a MF cutting disc? Be aware that the latter combo is quite aggressive.

If you have both types of pads, try a test spot with a yellow foam pad first. If that doesn't work, then step up to a MF cutting pad..

Good catch! I meant foam, not cutting pad. Thanks.

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Oh, as I mentioned on another thread, I used ScratchX (recommended by the gentleman who is a professional detailer), blue cotton pads from AutoZone, and the cheap orbiter on that scuff mark. Did three slow passes and removed the flaws .

Finished up with UP and wax.

Looks real good now, but again, challenged with uploading pics.

My buddy said don't be surprised if I am able to see the scuff mark after a few weeks, but I will wait and see.

[KidDetailer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

I was wondering if Scratch x 2.0 makes sense anymore?

The reason I ask is because for 7 oz of Scratch X 2.0 ; it costs $8
while for 15 oz of Ultimate Compound; it costs $10

I kind of would like to purchase more Scratch X, but pricing doesn't make sense for me. Perhaps D151 might fill in the gap of aggressiveness for me. Something between Ultimate Polish and Ultimate Compound

[BillyJack]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

I can't reply from experience, since I've never used Scratch-X, but working by machine, I don't see a need for anything in between UC and D151. I could be wrong, but I believe Scratch-X was intended as a inexpensive consumer product for the average consumer working by hand.
I continue to be impressed with the versatility of UC. Using a coarse pad, it cuts well and is less dependent on proper technique than M105, but with a medium pad such as an LC white or Meguiar's yellow, it finishes well enough that subsequent polishing becomes an option rather than a necessity.

Bill

[The Guz]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

If you already have UC, I would not bother picking up scratch x. If you want something that is versatile and fits in between UP and UC, then pick up some M205. Offers more correction than UP. If you are looking for a one step then look into D151, white wax or some of the other cleaner waxes.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Bill really nailed it with regard to the reason ScratchX 2.0 exists in the first place. From a marketing standpoint, a product has to be able to sell itself to the consumer while sitting on a shelf filled with automotive finish care products. The average guy on the street doesn't know a fraction of what you guys know, so when he gets a little isolated scratch on his paint he goes to the store looking for something that will fix that scratch. His car is likely loaded with swirls but he doesn't recognize that as being a problem - it's just the way paint is. But that one scratch is driving him nuts and he wants it gone. A product like Ultimate Compound probably scares him because of that word - COMPOUND!!!!! He doesn't understand that all below surface defects get treated and fixed the same way. If you tell him "this product will fix scratches, swirls, etchings, oxidation, stains, etc etc" he thinks it's hype. Come on, one product can't fix everything! So he searches for a product that says it will do what he's looking for a product to do.

You guys, being detailing enthusiasts and members of a detailing forum (and maybe 2 or 3 such forums) understand that all below surface defects are indeed addressed in basically the same manner. And that you can alter the cutting ability of any product by how you use it - pad selection, tool speed, pressure, etc. If you're looking for something "between Ultimate Polish and Ultimate Compound", you could most likely fill that void with simply a less aggressive use of UC. D151 is extremely versatile but we wouldn't really put it between UP and UC. It can be used with a rotary buffer and a wool pad, and in that configuration it will out cut UC on a foam polishing pad via DA. But you can also use it as a light duty cleaner wax, in which case it's probably less potent than even UP.

If you have some M205 on hand, you might want to give that a try. If you don't have M205 you really need to get some - it's very versatile but as a finishing polish it's downright amazing.

[KidDetailer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

In what way is M205 different from Ultimate Polish. I understand there is a difference that's been pointed out already in that it has a bit more correction ability.

So far, Ultimate Compound in combination with 3 inch Red/Yellow pad at speed setting 4/5 has taken cared of most defects I have come across. However, I have mostly been working with German cars with hard paint. With softer paints, I start with the Ultimate polish with a 3 inch yellow pad. I adjust aggressiveness with speed settings, even starting at speed 3 and work my way up to 5. If that doesn't work I would do Ultimate compound on the 3 inch yellow and start at 3 again and work my way up. If that doesn't work, I would then go with red pad and work my way up again as previously stated.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

In what way is M205 different from Ultimate Polish. I understand there is a difference that's been pointed out already in that it has a bit more correction ability.

M205 has more abrasive load to it than Ultimate Polish, but UP has more polishing oils than M205. The difference is enough that M205 can actually provide a fairly high level of cut, depending on how it's used. With a microfiber pad it can actually accomplish quite a bit of defect removal, and on very haze prone paint it can be a life saver on a foam cutting pad and liberal use of water as a wetting agent to remove the haze and leave a beautiful finish.

So far, Ultimate Compound in combination with 3 inch Red/Yellow pad at speed setting 4/5 has taken cared of most defects I have come across. However, I have mostly been working with German cars with hard paint. With softer paints, I start with the Ultimate polish with a 3 inch yellow pad. I adjust aggressiveness with speed settings, even starting at speed 3 and work my way up to 5. If that doesn't work I would do Ultimate compound on the 3 inch yellow and start at 3 again and work my way up. If that doesn't work, I would then go with red pad and work my way up again as previously stated.

This sounds like a great way to approach any vehicle when you don't know how the paint will respond. An easy approach at first with a variety of more aggressive options when the need arises.

[roger3380]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Oh, as I mentioned on another thread, I used ScratchX (recommended by the gentleman who is a professional detailer), blue cotton pads from AutoZone, and the cheap orbiter on that scuff mark. Did three slow passes and removed the flaws .

Finished up with UP and wax.

Looks real good now, but again, challenged with uploading pics.

My buddy said don't be surprised if I am able to see the scuff mark after a few weeks, but I will wait and see.

Your buddy probably means that the oils from the polish with some time fill in the scratches tricking your eyes to think you have them all gone . So you can do a IPA wipe down lightly to remove any oils left behind. But be careful not rub to hard you dont want to add any more scratches to your paint.

[sunvalleylaw]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

In what way is M205 different from Ultimate Polish. I understand there is a difference that's been pointed out already in that it has a bit more correction ability.

So far, Ultimate Compound in combination with 3 inch Red/Yellow pad at speed setting 4/5 has taken cared of most defects I have come across. However, I have mostly been working with German cars with hard paint. With softer paints, I start with the Ultimate polish with a 3 inch yellow pad. I adjust aggressiveness with speed settings, even starting at speed 3 and work my way up to 5. If that doesn't work I would do Ultimate compound on the 3 inch yellow and start at 3 again and work my way up. If that doesn't work, I would then go with red pad and work my way up again as previously stated.

just getting back into doing some home detail work myself. I will be using a Griots DA and have some UC and some UP to start with. I will be working on a 2005 dark metallic blue VW Passat Wagon. So they are known for harder paint? I was intending on using the orange griots corrective pad with UC, black finishing pad with UP, and then protecting with wax applied via a red pad. Does that make sense? I am trying not to be off topic, but am also trying to be mindful of the many variables as discussed in this thread. Also, I may have to pick up some M205 based on what the experts here seem to be saying.

[davey g-force]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

just getting back into doing some home detail work myself. I will be using a Griots DA and have some UC and some UP to start with. I will be working on a 2005 dark metallic blue VW Passat Wagon. So they are known for harder paint? I was intending on using the orange griots corrective pad with UC, black finishing pad with UP, and then protecting with wax applied via a red pad. Does that make sense? I am trying not to be off topic, but am also trying to be mindful of the many variables as discussed in this thread. Also, I may have to pick up some M205 based on what the experts here seem to be saying.

Your plan generally sounds good.

I'm not familiar with the colors of GG pads, but I assume red is one of the softer ones for finishing / waxing? If so, then you're good to go!

Just remember to do a test spot first to see if your process is giving you the results you're after, before repeating on the whole car. If UC is taking care of the major defects, then you shouldn't need to buy M205. Just follow up with your UP.

VW's generally tend to have harder paint, but that's a generalisation. Every car is different - hence the importance of the test spot.