First CC wetsanding experience - went well :)

[Cole Ziegler]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Tim thank you so much for that post. EXACTLY what I was looking for. I'll leave the wetsanding to the SS VW project we have sitting in the garage that was a repaint a few months ago. Already worked some on that and it looks terrific. Will post pics. Thanks!!!

[Cosmin]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

One other question, I know what it looks like when CC has been sanded through, and I know your not supposed to sand more than .5um of clear, and I also know its impossible to know HOW MUCH to sand,

dude , do yourself a favor and invest in a paint gauge, before playing around car like that

[Tim Lingor]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Going to try to pick up some panels tomorrow... so they way you guys talk so firmly about UV protection, and being careful to not hurt the CC, whats the point? Your posts read like removing ANY CC will remove UV coating and promote premature CC damage.... whats the real scoop? what are the pros of wetsanding CC properly?

What's the point

of worrying about CC failure??? I am certain that is not what you meant as it is rather self evident.

What [is] the real scoop?

We told you the real scoop. Please re-read my post.

What we are saying is that extremely few people, and these are Pro's with many many years of experience, will even attempt the removal of orange peel on a factory OEM paint as it is simply too thin (as the removal of .3 -. 5mils of CC can and may lead to CC failure). There is no other way to explain it; if the paint is thin to start with, wet sanding it will remove a large portion of it, thereby jeopardizing the longevity (ie, bringing on premature CC failure), of the paint. How do you know how many times a paint has been buffed before you? An ETG will not help unless you have the factory numbers that specific vehicle came with. It can be done, but there is huge risk involved and a very large measured amount of skill required.

Most wet sanding is done to vehicles that have been painted in a body shop where extra clear was shot on the base coat, as wet sanding is somewhat expected to level the finish. An OEM paint job is VERY different than an auto body paint job. So if a person was entering their car in a show, they may have extra CC shot on the base coat so that it can be wet sanded and leveled, thereby creating an ultra smooth flat finish. The entire vehicle is completed rather than doing a hit or miss type of sanding which will leave waves in the paint that look terrible! In other words, the vehicle is re-painted and extra CC applied with assumption of wet sanding to follow.

What I was trying to explain in the previous post is that the vast majority of people do NOT wet sand OEM paints as they know the limitations and the future liabilities from creating thin paint and premature CC failure. Unless you have a lot of money to buy someone a paint job, it is simply too risky.

I have it said many times, wet sanding is not for the novice. Just because the OEM paint buffs up shiny after sanding does not mean you have not created a situation where in a few months the CC fails and you need a full paint job, which is very expensive! Do you have an ETG? Do you have an air DA? Interface pads, and up to 4000 grit DA papers? Sanding blocks? What size? What brand? These are all factors that must be used and not simply considered. Wet sanding is the most difficult aspect of detailing and many simply can not or will not do it.

Does that explain it better?

Tim

[Cole Ziegler]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Going to try to pick up some panels tomorrow... so they way you guys talk so firmly about UV protection, and being careful to not hurt the CC, whats the point? Your posts read like removing ANY CC will remove UV coating and promote premature CC damage.... whats the real scoop? what are the pros of wetsanding CC properly?

[Eddie6th]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Good decision you've made not to wetsand. If you look at 'Show off your work' forum,you'll see really excellent work that's done without wetsanding. Some even done by hand using ScratchX 2 and applicator.

Definitely get some practice on old panels before using the rotary on someone elses vehicle. If you can get panels,take painted plastic panels to practice on aswell. There was a thread recentley where a very experienced user caused the paint on a honda bumper to bubble.

A warning on "paint wrinkle"!!!


Take a read.It's something else to consider.

[Cole Ziegler]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Thanks guys, on second contact to the owner we decided a good buff with the rotary would be sufficient, but regardless I do plan to master wetsanding, however many years that takes. I do very appreciate the advice, and do not take it offensive in any way so dont worry about that. In the mean time ill stick to some old panels and see what i can bring back

[the_invisible]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Tim Lingor is right!!! I would trust his judgement regarding the difference between OEM paint and aftermarket paint. Aftermarket paint usually has two thicker, slightly softer clear coat, as opposed to one layer of hard coat. This is because bodyshops need that extra room to remove dust nibs and that bake the paint at a much lower tempature.

Moreover, BMW paint is very hard. From my experience, a traditional 4 ply wool pad is just enough to remove heavy swirls at an adequate rate on BMW paint. To remove sanding marks adequately you will probably have to go with the maroon solo pad to remove those marks. I finally have the chance to work on my 335i and I cannot imagine how long it would take to properly wetsand this car. Swirl removal alone is a challenge.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Hey,

I think you are missing the point however....

After reading your thread about possibly wet sanding someones BMW, and then seeing this thread, I believe you are missing the point of the warning about wet sanding OEM paint.

As Mike said, OEM paint is thin, very thin and can be hard as glass. Meaning, it is easy to sand the paint but extremely difficult to remove the tracers and sanding marks. Do an alcohol/water wipe and then pull it into the sun, do you see any feint lines?

In this thread, to be quite honest, that sanding work was very poor. You did not use a block and some of those sanding lines caused by improper sanding by hand, could have left some very deep marring that may be hidden by the LSP. Hence doing the Alcohol/water wipe down.

To be frank, at the level you are at, you should not go near a BMW with sanding paper unless you have the money to pay for a full repaint if something goes wrong. Removing the orange peel may in fact put the paint way below the maximum amount of product removal. This is the reason why most people do not wet sand OEM paint. Also, some paints are as hard as glass so while the saning is easy, you may not be able to remove the sanding marks without the proper products, tools and knowledge on how to do this...

Please do practice as said on an old hood, read as much as you can on the subject and stay away from sanding OEM or aftermarket paint unless you have a LOT of experience and very good insurance in case a mistake happens, and they will happen, not if, but when.

I am not trying to discourage you and we all appreciate your enthusiasm. But after viewing this thread, you are in way over your head at this point. With practice you may be able to offer the service, but just because you can does not mean you should. Being sued for libel because your work caused the premature failing of the paint could cost you a lot of money. So just slow down and you will get there in time. We all had to take time to get to the point we are at. And, I have made many mistakes along the way. Believe me...

When the time comes, I will be the first one to step up and off help with any of your questions.

Tim

[Cole Ziegler]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

That was also in the plan, Michael, picking up a junk panel to sand. Used a block to sand, and the whole truck was done with the rotary and menz po83 before, about 3 or 4 months ago, actually the first truck I experimented on and thats why there were some holograms on the hood, this was before i had the PC. The sole reason of wetsanding the truck was just to gain some experience, so I was mainly looking to practice, thanks for all the advice guys! Will pick up a panel or two to practice on.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Have you tried buffing without wetsanding?

The peel doesn't look bad.

A very good point. Have you tried buffing with just the rotary and M105 first to see what that does for the color?

Quite honestly, from the looks of your sanding marks, you aren't really doing much of anything to the paint with the sandpaper (which, honestly, is a good thing since you're just getting started with this) except scuffing it up a bit. We're willing to bet that, given how little you sanded, the vast majority of visual improvement made thus far is from the rotary/M105.

People always caution against sanding so much that you sand through the clear into the color coat, but the truth of the matter is the damage is done long before that. The 0.5mil maximum paint removal recommendation is based on the amount of UV protection being removed in the process - as a clear coat dries the majority of the UV protection rises to the top, so removing even a small percentage of clear removes a large percentage of UV protection. This will lead to premature clear coat failure. Virtually every auto manufacturer stipulates this 0.5mil max clear removal.

Do you even have a paint thickness gauge to guide you through this process? Remember that 0.5mil is 1/2 of 1/1000 of an inch (technically, 0.0005 inch) - you can get through pretty quickly if you aren't experienced in the process. This really isn't something one should enter into lightly, especially on a vehicle you, or someone else, care about.

Before you even consider any further wet sanding, listen to Eddie and try just rotary buffing first - and hopefully you're at least reasonably adept at that too.

Edit to add: Looking back at the sanding marks, are you using a block or pad of any sort when wet sanding? It looks like you're just doing it with your bare hand, which would explain the very uneven marks. Doing so you run a huge risk of cutting much too deeply where you fingers are applying pressure and not cutting much of anything in the space between your fingers. Not only does this potentially lead to removal of too much clear, but you can easily end up with a noticeable wavy pattern that can be very visible when looking down the side of the vehicle.

If you're going to insist on pursuing this, do yourself a favor and pick up a body panel from a junkyard and practice on that. We love that you have this desire to learn wet sanding, we just think you're far, far better off learning on something with little or no value. And with a junk yard panel you can actually do some testing and see what it takes to sand through to the color, or even rotary buff through the paint on edges, body lines/creases, etc.

[Eddie6th]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Have you tried buffing without wetsanding?

The peel doesn't look bad.

[Cole Ziegler]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Thanks guys, will do the whole truck after the mods.... planning on adding 2 tone beige on bottom like 4wd models and fender flares, plus repainting grill, misc stereo, all sorts of goodies! Thanks for all the advice and comments

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

You brought back a lot more pop. IT is a big improvement. Looks good.

[Ganesa]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

yup removing orange peel takes way more wetsanding and dedication.. but you did a great job bringing back the color :]...

[AndrewR/T]

Re: First CC wetsanding experience - went well

Yes, and it still won't completely remove all orange peel, but it does help: