Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

[SHYNEMAN123]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

Your friend Bart sounds like a real character - the kind of guy you hang around the garage with for hours swapping paint polishing stories.

Yes, those really do exist!!

Yes he is a character but with a wealth of paint knowledge 2nd to none I have met in my 28 years in the business and a Expert in older paint systems as well as current.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

I also e-mailed a friend of mine he is retired from SIKKINS after 30 + years and here is his reply.

Your friend Bart sounds like a real character - the kind of guy you hang around the garage with for hours swapping paint polishing stories.

Yes, those really do exist!!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

Obviously our pad of choice would be the Meguiar's W8207 polishing pad, but you seem to be a fan of the LC pads. If memory serves their orange pad is just a touch more aggressive than our W8207 but their white pad is a bit less so. If the marring is very light start with the white pad - and take advantage of the fact that Ultimate Compound has a crazy long buffing cycle.

[the_invisible]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

Update:
Before I started cleaning my foam pads, I decided to give M105 one more pass using the orange 5.5" LC cutting pad. the marring is now gone.

Now, I still see some fine scratch marks associated with NON-UNIFORM sandpapers. They are not hard to remove and are fairly light on the clear coat.

I have decided to use Ultimate Compound to remove those isolated sanding scratches. What is the best pad to use?

[the_invisible]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

Thanks Shyneman for the clarification... and Mike Stoops for the warning!


Just wetsanded the hood.

I started with 2500 grit because I thought orange peel is not a concern. however, I realized that 2500 was too weak. There were actually deeper orange peel that I couldn't catch with my own eyes. I should have used 2000 grit, but as it stands right now 2500 grit seems to have done the job well. I also used a flexible sanding block. I should have went with the unigrit paper, but I was too impatient and went with the 3M wetordry.

I used a LC 5.5" orange pad and M105 to remove the sanding marks. I then gave it a couple pass using LC 5.5" white pad with swirlX. I am still having some marring and swirls that I cannot remove.

Wetsanding with 2500 has definitely improved the gloss and depth of the new paint significantly. It is hard to tell in the picture, but it is noticeable. 2000 would have done a better job, but I really thought 2500 was enough from my eye-assessment. I guess I was wrong.



Here are some pictures:
I did the left side already... sanding marks didn't look like much, but I sanded the entire hood, with noticeable defects given more pressure for correction.


polished 1/4 of the hood:


GLOSS after M105:









I am very tired now.

What do you guys suggest I use to remove the marring and fine swirls? I tried both ScratchX 2.0 and SwirlX with no effect. Should I try M105 using a polishing pad? Or perhaps SwirlX with a orange cutting pad?

maybe give it a third pass using M105 and an orange pad?

[SHYNEMAN123]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

Just a follow up. I agree with Mike as far as skill level needed for the undertaking I posted. From his post it sounded likehe has the exp.

I also e-mailed a friend of mine he is retired from SIKKINS after 30 + years and here is his reply.

Frank is on track with polishing-- but I am a whole lot lazier. I just DA dry with1500 ( if you want you can put a interface pad in there as well) polish with 3m compound the new stuff that smells good using a white foam pad probably 2 times then 3M ultra fina glaze (the blue 3m italian stuff)( while you are at it pour a glass of nice SuperTuscan wine- sangoviase, cabernet and merlot blend) and blue foam pad all at 2000 revs or lower. like I said I'm lazy. fresh clear is easier to polish than older.
The real question is the loss of DOI Depth of image it sounds like the clear pinched up as a result of something
could be too coarse sanding before basecoat or maybe the primer if some was used caused the pinching. the base may have too many coats as some colors dont hide well and take a lot of film build to cover even with force flash- the tip off is the fender that was blended into- it was glossy --very little if any basecoat on it for blend and certantly no primer and as some would say wala (oops! "voila") higher gloss.
you can also get anal and wet feet if you want to sand wet with 3000. then polish
reminds me of that old joke about the difference between a polish guy and a shine
regards

Bart

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

SHYNEMAN123, the answer you gave is "simple" if, and only if, you are very skilled in the art of wet sanding and rotary buffing. Otherwise it can be an extremely complex and involved process, not without potential pitfalls. Especially for a novice. Heck, a novice shouldn't even consider this!

Now, the_invisible, we aren't calling you a novice - in fact we aren't completely sure just what your skill level is, we just don't want a novice to read this and think it's perfectly fine and easy to just start wet sanding on their new paint job.

Back to the issue at hand - it appears that there is now an appearance difference present between this freshly painted hood, the previously painted bumper, and the original paint on the fender. But only the bumper has been polished with M205, and we know what M205 can do for the clarity of a finish. Before jumping in with the sand paper, no matter how skilled you may be, we would suggest you give those panels that have not been introduced to M205 a little love and see where that gets you. Obviously you aren't going to literally change the color, but if M205 darkened and deepened the appearance of that panel, well, you see where this is going.

[the_invisible]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

runester, it's an honor to have your very first post explaining your ordeal posted in a thread I created. I TOTALLY understand your frustration and I can definitely relate to it.

I think legal action was not required in my case as the corporation was really cooperative in correcting my problem. I admit that the final result of my hood was not OEM perfect, but that is something I can correct myself with some ultra fine wetsanding paper. Sure, I should not have to incur the costs of doing any follow-up work, but that's just life.

The job performed on my car isn't too bad honestly. They used one of the best paints in the industry, Sikkens. They could have done better by simply wetsanding and polishing the paint after the paint job, but whatever... It's hard to sue every corporation that I unhappy with.

[SHYNEMAN123]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

The answer is simple. Wash the hood with soap and water and dry completely. Wet sand the hood with 1500 sandpaper. Wash and dry the hood again. Then sand the hood with 3000 grit sandpaper. Wash and dry the hood.Let the paint breath overnight,This will allow the solvent to escape and wont fight the compound your putting on top. Now for buffing use a wool pad with your compound of choice Once the compound step is completed wash the hood and dry. Now switch to a foam pad and use the machine glaze or polish of your choice.. Wash and dry then follow with the hand glaze of choice (3M 5941). Always use 70/30 blend microfiber towels throughout the process. This has worked for me on Sikkens and any brand of Clearcoat for many years and delivers a show quality finish.

Paint is naturally a solid we add thinners or reducers to make it spray able so we can apply it. as it is sprayed it drys from the out side in if not applied properly you can trap solvent. when this happens the solvent works its way to the surface and will fan out this causes blushing or what we call dye back. If there is too much solvent trapped it can build up and pop like little pin holes thru the clear.

When you wet or even dry sand the clear you open up the surface and allow solvent to escape. than after buffing you have improved the clarity.

[runester]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

Man, this just chips my grill! I have to chime in here and share an experience, driving two blocks from home in my brand new black Nissan Titan 4X4 with three kids in the car an 87 year old lady who's license, and insurance, had been revoked two weeks prior for flunking her eye test, turned left in a 4-way I was approaching at about 40 MPH. The truck had less than 1k miles on it. A new full front end cage bumper saved us, but it ended up in the body/repair shop, ironically, right on the corner where the accident occurred. Don't mean to get long winded, anyway, I had been using these guys for years for engine work I myself wasn't equipped for. Good shop, did ALL the cop cars here in Santa Monica. So a few days later, my truck is done, left fender/quarter panel looks great! Hood looks great! Wait a minute, WTF! The skid plate hasn't been replaced! No worries...Two days later I get the call. It looks great! wait a minute, WTF! The steering wheel is like, three inches off center! Now, though I am very calm, I begin to recieve a bit of the attitude...I here a guy call me petty under his breath. I ignore it. Later that day, I get my truck. Its perfect, or so I think until I wash it a week later and see that they have taken steel wool to my ENTITRE TRUCK! Now I am mad! I drive two blocks to the shop and find no one at the counter, and in my search for the owner, notice for the first time that, because the entire lot is building, sort of like a small warehouse, every car being worked on in the body work area, which I had never seen before, is covered in white powder! And I mean EVERY CAR, maybe fifteen or more, is literally hidden beneath bondo fallout from the sanding going on inside! Without telling him the nature of my business, I bring the owner, who was noticeably purturbed at seeing me, out to my truck and say, "Can you explain this?"
He denied ALL culpibility. I took pictures of his operation immediately with my cellphone, and filed suit. He offered to settle out of court, and repaint my brand new black truck. I said no thank you. I won the case, and the judge sided with me, saying I would have been nuts to let them touch the vehgicle after so much neglignce. See, judges know more than anyone how revenge works. Of course I took it somewhere else at a cost of nearly 5K. It looks as good as new. After hearing your story, if I were you, I would sue. The LAST thing I would do is give them access to my car! God only knows what hidden damage they'll do! Take it somewhere reputable, get a proffessional analysis, and bring it all to small claims. You will win, trust me, and all you will lose is your time. Saddly, these days, more often than not, it makes no differance if your nice, or irate. The simple fact he sounded suspicious over the phone should tell you all you need to know. Any responsible, decent business owner would have been courteous and reassuring, letting you know that he/she would take responsibilty for any damage they might have caused. Being a man who has owned three small business's, I have had my share of complaints, and ALWAYS handled them that way! Anything less, IMHO, is clear sign of dishonesty. When one takes pride in the work they market, they back it up like a proffesional! Furthermore, you had EVERY RIGHT to be VERY ANGRY! A car is no small financial investmant, and for one who takes pride in their vehicle, it is also an investmant in time for proper maintenance. I dont care if the blemish is dime or mellon sized! When you take your car in for a repair, you have every right to complain if damage is done! Thats why I ALAWAYS do a walk around with a service rep. when I drop any of my cars off for anything! These days you have to! Many people just dont give a darn! And if they do damage, most just hope you just wont notice, and will argue with you if you do! I'm sorry, but it just galls me to hear people advising you to lay down on this. And again, I'd avoid that shop, they have already proved their incopentece, why take chances...
Anyway, thats just my two cents
R--

[the_invisible]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

They didn't tell me. But I am under the impression that all baked panels can be washed. All the bodyshops washed my cars after they have been repainted.

[Ryan L.]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

Did they say you could wash it that soon? When I had a panel on the Jeep repainted, I couldn't wash it for a month.

Might want to call them.

[the_invisible]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

As promised, some pictures:









See the bumper/fender paint mismatch? It is only visible under fluorescent lighting. The bumper was repainted two years ago for rock chips. The bumper paint job was blended with right fender. This time, when the hood is repainted, it is blended with the right fender yet again. So... Now one side of the fender doesn't match the bumper. The hood matches with the rest of the car nicely, it's just that the issue is solely caused by the repaint of the front bumper. The mismatched front bumper was only hidden by paint blending of the fenders. Now that the correct paint has been used on the hood and fender, the mismatched bumper is clearly visible. Sigh... after the windshield incident, this car will never be loved the same way ever again!!!
Time to trade in for a G37 coupe or 370Z. Or just drive the 335i instead.

Mike Pennington was correct... it is sometimes better to live with a little defect (windshield urethane stuck on the paint) than to have body color mismatch, quality compromised, etc.

One thing to consider, the bumper had a few passes of M205 and it has a VERY deep, dark gloss to the surface. The fender, on the other hand, has never been treated with polish of any kind, and is not very deep, although very shiny. Performing the same M205 treatment to the fender may darken the fender and deepen its gloss to match that of the bumper. At least I hope!



In this angle, it is not obvious at all. Neither is in the sunlight.

[the_invisible]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

You should not need to clay fresh paint
If there any dirt nibs or peel areas you want to correct use 2000 uni grit wet and than buff with 105.
After you wet sand let it breath for a day prior to buffing to let the solvent escape than buff with 105.
You can top off with a polish # 80 or 7 or 205 but no wax or sealent 21 for 60 to 90 days

Thanks Shyneman123 for the advice. If the peels are not too bad, can I simply use M105 to sharpen the paint a little?

Glad you got your problem solved.

maybe not the best of jobs,but acceptable.Seems you got a decent guy.I would have thought 400 a bit heavy too,just to sand down a coat for paint prep.

Yeah, it's not the best job, but at least the painter I dealt with seemed to have the right attitude. You can't get mad at a person with the correct attitude, although I knew he could have done better... I don't know. So far, in my life, I have dealt with many bodyshops. So far, none of my experiences has been perfect. After any visit to any bodyshop, there were always issues that needed follow-up... be it moulding falling off, excessive orange peels, bumper not fitted correctly, window rubber seals out of place, you name it.


This time, I find some sort of sanding marks on both my headlights. At first, I thought those marks were waterspots, clear coat overspray, masking tape residue. I tried claying the marks, rubbing it with alcohol, and even paint thinner. Then I noticed it was sanding mark.

I tried getting them out using M105 with my PC7424XP and yellow LC Pad with 5 passes at speed 6. It improved a little, but still there. I finished up using PlastX and it got really better. Perhaps I will try wetsanding the headlight a little tomorrow.

[Eddie6th]

Re: Clear Coat Sanded Through by Bodyshop!

Glad you got your problem solved.

maybe not the best of jobs,but acceptable.Seems you got a decent guy.I would have thought 400 a bit heavy too,just to sand down a coat for paint prep.