$310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

[TH0001]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Hey Todd,

Any updates from your friends?

Tim

Sorry for the late reply, it slipped my mind, and then I dropped the ball.

Both cases a rotary was being used, once with a Menzerna polish (not sure which one), once with M105.

On the (brand?) new M3, the front bumper got ripped up with M105/wool pad.

On the (brand?) new M6, the front bumper AND ground FX got ripped up with a Menzerna polish and a Lake Country Orange Pad.

It seem in both cases they where polishing pretty aggressively. In the case of the M3, the paint wrinkled almost immediately.

I have since spoken to two more people about this who also had problems. So far all cases where from a rotary, but I would still be very careful with a DA.

[eyezack87]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Hmm, I had this happen earlier last month on a BMW M3-"csl" show car for HIN. The back bumper is definitely a problem area for me. I've cut my process down to PC or hand only in that area from now on...

[Tim Lingor]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Can this ONLY happen with a rotary Tim, or can it happen with a DA as well?

Good question! Because of the type of paint, and the plastic composite backing material, it is hard to say if it could or could not. I have never wrinkled paint with the DA, though that is not to say it could not happen if using a cutting pad and higher speeds. I would just be real careful!!!!

Tim

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

I know of one occasion where a Surbuf pad and a DA managed to twist the paint. But, it was very fresh paint and they were able to fix it with a little heat.

Other than that, I haven't heard of a DA wrinkling paint, but it doesn't mean it can't happen...

[3Fitty]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Can this ONLY happen with a rotary Tim, or can it happen with a DA as well?

[Tim Lingor]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

I will follow up with these guys today, but I am almost 100% sure that in both cases a wool pad was used and the problem occured as soon as the machine was turned on.

FWIW, I had a similar experience with a Jaguar about 6 months ago. I went to polish the mirror and as soon as I turned on the rotary to spread the polish it pulled the paint right off. At first I thought it was the polish gumming because it occured at 600 rpm, no pressure, and with in seconds.

Please let us know what they say. My comments were not directed at just the Bimmer's but rather other vehicles with plastic painted bumpers and body cladding. Some vehicles seem worse than others, and perhaps this is related to the flex agent in the paint and/or the plastic, I do not know.

When I did the write-up, I was intending on showing how easy it was to burn through the paint (it was a damaged part and did not matter). To my surprise, I wrinkled the paint. Again, this was several years ago, (at least 6 years ago) when I did that write-up and discovered the problem. Were the companies at the time now switching to something new in the paint (ie. new technology in flex agents?) leading to these issues, again, I do not know. So after experimenting with the issue, I found that the foam cutting pads created more heat and seemed to cause the problem easier than with other pads. But if with these Bimmer's, they just barely touched the paint with a wool pad, then something else must be going on....and appears something that we all need to worry about.


I think your comment about ripping paint off of a Jag is a good warning for everyone. Even people with tons of experience can have issues with a particular paint or vehicle. This is another reason why detailing forums are so valuable as they allow people to read such stories and to hopefully use caution when detailing any vehicle!

Tim

Hey Todd,

Any updates from your friends?

Tim

[Details]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

thank god it wasnt on his ferrari 360, i did that the day before i did his bimmer!!! weeeewwww

[RaskyR1]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Man that stinks bro!


I wonder if this issue could be lessened by the use of the PC or Flex on those panels?

[RDVT4ME]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Wow, this is good to know and a bit scary that the paint is so easily removed in this situation.

[Hemin8r]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Wow, sorry to hear about what happened. You did good with handling it well to correct the issue. I guess it's all part of the job and we have to learn from our mistakes which in this case I don't think you knew this would happen. This is the first time I hear of this so thanks for posting it. I'm curious to hear more about this from Todd, Tim and others.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

I will follow up with these guys today, but I am almost 100% sure that in both cases a wool pad was used and the problem occured as soon as the machine was turned on.

FWIW, I had a similar experience with a Jaguar about 6 months ago. I went to polish the mirror and as soon as I turned on the rotary to spread the polish it pulled the paint right off. At first I thought it was the polish gumming because it occured at 600 rpm, no pressure, and with in seconds.

Please let us know what they say. My comments were not directed at just the Bimmer's but rather other vehicles with plastic painted bumpers and body cladding. Some vehicles seem worse than others, and perhaps this is related to the flex agent in the paint and/or the plastic, I do not know.

When I did the write-up, I was intending on showing how easy it was to burn through the paint (it was a damaged part and did not matter). To my surprise, I wrinkled the paint. Again, this was several years ago, (at least 6 years ago) when I did that write-up and discovered the problem. Were the companies at the time now switching to something new in the paint (ie. new technology in flex agents?) leading to these issues, again, I do not know. So after experimenting with the issue, I found that the foam cutting pads created more heat and seemed to cause the problem easier than with other pads. But if with these Bimmer's, they just barely touched the paint with a wool pad, then something else must be going on....and appears something that we all need to worry about.


I think your comment about ripping paint off of a Jag is a good warning for everyone. Even people with tons of experience can have issues with a particular paint or vehicle. This is another reason why detailing forums are so valuable as they allow people to read such stories and to hopefully use caution when detailing any vehicle!

Tim

[TH0001]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Hey,

Sorry to hear that, but this is not that uncommon. I used to have a write-up on here about wet sanding and the dangers of rotary buffing on painted bumpers as it could wrinkle the paint. The paint wrinkles from getting the paint too hot with the rotary. In essence, the paint smears and bunches up, Ie. wrinkles. The plastic bumper combined with the paint which has a flex agent added to it, does not allow the dissipation of heat as well as metal. Instead of burning through the paint, wrinkled paint is the end result.

You did not say, but I bet it was a foam cutting pad, right? The foam cutting pad does heat up the paint quite quickly, much faster than wool or a foam polishing pad.

I will see if I can find my photos I used in that write-up but I have a feeling the thread was lost long ago in the server changes.

Tim

I will follow up with these guys today, but I am almost 100% sure that in both cases a wool pad was used and the problem occured as soon as the machine was turned on.

FWIW, I had a similar experience with a Jaguar about 6 months ago. I went to polish the mirror and as soon as I turned on the rotary to spread the polish it pulled the paint right off. At first I thought it was the polish gumming because it occured at 600 rpm, no pressure, and with in seconds.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

That stinks. But congrats on doing the right thing and getting it fixed properly.

Thanks for the heads up on this problem, Todd.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

Hey,

Sorry to hear that, but this is not that uncommon. I used to have a write-up on here about wet sanding and the dangers of rotary buffing on painted bumpers as it could wrinkle the paint. The paint wrinkles from getting the paint too hot with the rotary. In essence, the paint smears and bunches up, Ie. wrinkles. The plastic bumper combined with the paint which has a flex agent added to it, does not allow the dissipation of heat as well as metal. Instead of burning through the paint, wrinkled paint is the end result.

You did not say, but I bet it was a foam cutting pad, right? The foam cutting pad does heat up the paint quite quickly, much faster than wool or a foam polishing pad.

I will see if I can find my photos I used in that write-up but I have a feeling the thread was lost long ago in the server changes.

Tim

[Details]

Re: $310 detail for free!!!!!!!!

it didnt burn, it just moved the paint so it wrinkled... kinda picture like if paint was dry on the surface and wet under neath the surface amd it jus moved, thats the only way i can explain it.... very weird!!!!!!!!!!