8" pad vs. 6.5" pad

[2000]

well I finally figured out how to work #80 with the rotery instead of the pc, I wasn't letting it break down enough and in the process ending up with too much product, but I degress. I was able to get the 8" pad to work great even was able to pick up my bead with little or no sling, but I wanted to use the 6.5 inch pad and had no luck getting the #80 to break down the same. it seemed like I either had to much product or not enough. do you have to adjust your speed when you go to a smaller pad? I was using the lowest setting on the 8" with great results, I'd put the 6.5 pad on and it was a whole nother ball game. thanks.

[2000]

[Tim Lingor]

Hey 2000,

Sorry, I have been REALLY busy lately.

Your experience with the larger pads is contrary to what most experience in that the smaller pads are usually easier to use.

What speed are you running the rotary at? What brand of pads are you using?

Normally the speed for both the 8" or the 6.5" pads should be the same for a given product. Like I said, the smaller pad is usually easier to control. However, there is nothing wrong with using the larger pads if you have them dialed in. The larger pad may break the product down slightly faster as the surface area of the pad is overlapping more area for each new pass on the paint. Though, it should not be too much different.

Are you using Meg's W-8006 pad?

Tim

[2000]

I always leave out the important stuff.

yes, megs pads on dewalt rotery, speed of 1000 rpms.
the smaller pads where easier to work without a doubt, but I was having trouble getting it to "cut" if you will, like the large pad. with the large pad I cut thought the swirls and polished down to my finished look. with the small pads, I was only getting down thought half the swirls first time around and by making more passes after the first inspection, I was finding the pad building up alot faster. I imagine thats some what normal as less space for product to spread out. do you use less product with a smaller pad? I'm still trying to break all the old school dealer taught rotery leasons. (you know..wool pad for every thing, make it shiny, fast and who cares about swirls.) knowing the little that I do now really makes me wonder about dealers, the place that "gave" me a rotery when I was 16 with no training, still does that.
and don't worry, I know your busy, figured I got lossed in traffic

[Mark McGuire]

Hey 2000,

I also started out with the smaller pads and then moved to the larger pads because it felt like I had a larger base under the unit which gave me more contro and I got less hop.

When I was in high school I worked at Winn-Dixe and polished floors with a floor buffer. I find that working a rotary is much like it on a smaller scale. You control it with the trigger end, and the handle gives your other hand someplace to lift the rotary if you have too. Up to go left, down to go right. Its how much force that you lift or push that will cause the buffer to shoot to the left or right and that will also cause holograms and burn marks from the backing plate.

I have found that you can get as much done with a finish pad and say #80, with more control, and less damage, than with a cutting pad and an aggresive pad and you don't have to go back and fix as much.

Just guessing I would say you don't need to use anything stronger than 80 and a finish pad on your truck, I've seen what it looks like with the PC and I'm sure with the rotary it will look even better.

Mark

[2000]

Originally posted by Mark McGuire
Hey 2000,

I also started out with the smaller pads and then moved to the larger pads because it felt like I had a larger base under the unit which gave me more contro and I got less hop.

When I was in high school I worked at Winn-Dixe and polished floors with a floor buffer. I find that working a rotary is much like it on a smaller scale. You control it with the trigger end, and the handle gives your other hand someplace to lift the rotary if you have too. Up to go left, down to go right. Its how much force that you lift or push that will cause the buffer to shoot to the left or right and that will also cause holograms and burn marks from the backing plate.

I have found that you can get as much done with a finish pad and say #80, with more control, and less damage, than with a cutting pad and an aggresive pad and you don't have to go back and fix as much.

Just guessing I would say you don't need to use anything stronger than 80 and a finish pad on your truck, I've seen what it looks like with the PC and I'm sure with the rotary it will look even better.

Mark

do you use the smaller pads at all anymore? I would like to use them for the door post and my roof. (it has a ribbed roof and the smaller pad fits between the ribs better.)other than that a large pad is a must for my truck...my wifes car on the other hand has a lot of small panel area and curves that a smaller pad would fit better. I just broke down and did it all with the large pad, feeling beat again that others can do it with a smaller pad, why can't I?
maybe I should stop worrying about how and just be happy with the results, but than I feel like I'm not learning anything.
BTW I love #21, thanks for the offer again, I'm going to post pics later.

[Mike Phillips]

Larger pads by their very nature offer better/more cutting or cleaning action than smaller pads.

If you want to remove defects with a rotary using our small foam pads, then consider using a more aggressive pad or product such as the W-7006/M80 Speed Glaze combo or W-8006/M83 DACP combo. For serious defects, the W-7006/M84 Compound Power Cleaner is usually very effective. Anything this combination doesn't remove you either don't want to remove it or you will have to substitute a wool cutting pad and a product like our M85 Diamond Cut Compound.

M80 Speed Glaze is a fairly gentle cleaner/polish, what are you trying to remove? What are you working on?

[2000]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Larger pads by their very nature offer better/more cutting or cleaning action than smaller pads.

If you want to remove defects with a rotary using our small foam pads, then consider using a more aggressive pad or product such as the W-7006/M80 Speed Glaze combo or W-8006/M83 DACP combo. For serious defects, the W-7006/M84 Compound Power Cleaner is usually very effective. Anything this combination doesn't remove you either don't want to remove it or you will have to substitute a wool cutting pad and a product like our M85 Diamond Cut Compound.

M80 Speed Glaze is a fairly gentle cleaner/polish, what are you trying to remove? What are you working on?

the car I was working on was new but the dealer had a detailer go over it with a wool pad and their special "shiny lifetime paint protectant" so it had a lot of swirls.I'm going to post pics in a review of #21 later. didn't think I would of needed to step up in product when you step down in pad size put it makes sence, in a way.

[Mark McGuire]

Hey
When I did smaller areas I would use the smaller pads, but as Mike said, I also had to go to a more aggresive pad and product. Also with the smaller pads I noticed the newer and or cleaner the pad was the easier it was to use, and at the learning stage I am at; never above 1200 rpm's.

Mark

[2000]

Originally posted by Mark McGuire
Hey
When I did smaller areas I would use the smaller pads, but as Mike said, I also had to go to a more aggresive pad and product. Also with the smaller pads I noticed the newer and or cleaner the pad was the easier it was to use, and at the learning stage I am at; never above 1200 rpm's.

Mark

makes sense after hearing it. my brain just won't come up with those things on its own.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey 2000,

Just wanted to add...

Do not use as much product with the smaller pads as you do with the larger ones. So if you are placing an eight inch line of product on the paint to be picked up with the 8" pad, use a six inch line with the 6.5 inch pad.

On most new vehicles, I have found that you have better access to the panel's contours with a smaller pad. Larger pads tend to not fit these contours leading one to tilt the pad. This tilting can can cause holograms as well as buffer burn.

I would suggest using the large pads where you are able and switch to the smaller pads where necessary.

Tim

[2000]

thanks all! Now that I have some #21 to put on my truck I'll get some extra practice.

[rusty bumper]

Originally posted by Mark McGuire
When I was in high school I worked at Winn-Dixe and polished floors with a floor buffer. I find that working a rotary is much like it on a smaller scale. You control it with the trigger end, and the handle gives your other hand someplace to lift the rotary if you have too. Up to go left, down to go right. Its how much force that you lift or push that will cause the buffer to shoot to the left or right and that will also cause holograms and burn marks from the backing plate.Mark

That's just the info I was looking for.........Thanks Mark

I used to run a floor buffer for Harris Teeter back in the seventies.

I found out that it's not brute force that gets the job done, but it's all about technique.....Or finesse, machine balance, etc.

I used that technique with a grinder......I got to the point where I could polish a peice of steel with one, so to speak.

Great thread BTW.

[ahains]

Originally posted by Mark McGuire
You control it with the trigger end, and the handle gives your other hand someplace to lift the rotary if you have too. Up to go left, down to go right. Its how much force that you lift or push that will cause the buffer to shoot to the left or right and that will also cause holograms and burn marks from the backing plate.

This is great info, and I have not seen it spelled out so clearly anywhere else in several weeks of searching around on Rotary info. I was just wondering about the effect of tilt/direction the last few days, so I'm very glad I came across this post. I'm going to have a chance to try rotary buffing for the first time in the next few days. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this slight tilt (maybe more "pressure" than "tilt") affects the rotary's travel.

[Zet]

Hi ahains, and to MOL.

Thx, for digging up this post, great info. If you are starting out with the rotary, and feel (like I did) that it is taking control over you, then learning to manage the tilting will really help in keeping the rotary steady.

Now, I just try to tilt the rotary so it's steadying itself, and then gently push it in the direction I wan't to go.

I have almost exclusively used 8" pads, but I'm going to be using more 6.5" pads, as the rotary I have is a compact model that isn't too fond of 8" pads. Sometimes it shuts off because of heat My logic would say that to get the same cutting action, and product breakdown rate, you would need to run the rotary faster with a 6.5" pad. Cause if using the same speed, the outer edge of the pad would be travelling faster when using an 8" pad.

Ok, just had to do some math
If you were running the rotary at 1200 rpm, the outer edge of the 6.5" pad would be travelling 23.21 mph, while the 8" edge would be travelling at 28.56 mph. So to get the same outer edge speed when using the 6.5" pad, you would need to run the rotary at 1477 rpm. But since it isn't only the outer edge doing the work, it does get a bit more complicated... But a speed in between would probably be about right? My guess is that something like 1300-1350 rpm with the 6.5", would give roughly the same breakdown rate as the 8" at 1200.

And with all that theory, I really think I just need to go try it out in praxis