Holograms

[detail4life]

Hi,

I am a "fairly" experienced detailer, detailing boats and cars for years, and holograms are one thing I can not figure out. Most of the time, the paint turns out great without holograms after rotary, and other times, holograms are left. How can my technique or materials be improved to avoid holograms? Also, what is the best way to remove holograms once they're achieved?

The most recent example I have is a car's quarter panel I buffed some scratches out of. I used Ultimate Compound, polishing foam pad, and high speed. Other then mild holograms, turned out great...Help on solving this problem without having to re-polish with other materials would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Tony

[rst08tierney]

Re: Holograms

are you using a wool pad?

[Murr1525]

Re: Holograms

A pretty broad topic really, lots of things will affect it.

Sounds like you are using a very agressive approach to start with (rotary, UC, high speed), so that will lead to swirls, esp on soft paint.

UC isnt really for rotary use I dont think.

You would tend to want to do things like starting milder (DA, milder products, rotary safe products) and only build up to stronger if needed.

[greg0303]

Re: Holograms

What speed did you use, Tony? Was it above 1500 rpm?

As Mat (Murr1525) said, UC wasn't formulated for use with rotary buffers. On some paints you may get good results and on some it may play really badly.

Swirls and holograms are circular polishers' best friends. Even with the right approach (flat pad, right liquid, right speed, proper technique) you may not be able to finish LSP ready with a rotary buffer. I found dark non metallic paints to be the most difficult to work on with aggressive pad/ liquid combination.

To finish hologram/ swirl free you need to step down to lower speed, less aggressive pad and liquid. I like M205 with yellow polishing pad on about 1200 rpm (last couple passes on 900 rpm) as swirl/ hologram removal. On more delicate paints black finishing pad may work better.

Some detailers prefer D/A polishers for finishing step(s).

[detail4life]

Re: Holograms

Thanks for the responses guys. To answer your questions:



It is a flat foam polishing pad, near equivalent to Meguiar's black pad...probally somewhere between yellow and black.

I was at 3000 rpms.

The paint was a dark metallic blue.



Did not know UC wasn't rotary friendly, that is now a huge red flag for me.

Thanks,

Tony

[greg0303]

Re: Holograms

This may be helpful, Tony:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39347

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Holograms

OK, you've got this posted in two places and I responded in the other post. I'm copying my response here and moving this thread to the Mastering the Rotary Buffer section of the forum.

Holograms are a function of a few different things - hardness or softness of paint, aggressiveness of liquid, aggressiveness of pad, tool speed, arm speed, pad angle.

In the recent case you mention - Ultimate Compound, mild foam pad, and high speed - we would expect holograms on a wide variety of paints. First off, Ultimate Compound is not technically a rotary compatible product. Yes, it is based on M105 Ultra Cut Compound from our Mirror Glaze Professional Line, but it's not the same stuff in a different bottle. That said, we have seen several cases of people getting very good results with it via rotary. But even so, high speed with something as aggressive as UC is bound to leave the paint less than perfect, especially if that paint is at all delicate. Combine that with a pad providing almost any level of cut and you're setting yourself up for at least some hologramming.

We would recommend following a step this aggressive with a much more delicate step. Specifically, a W9207 Soft Buff 2.0 (or similar) finishing pad, M205 Ultra Finishing Polish, and a tool speed of 900-1100 rpm. Even then, you want that pad very flat against the paint and your arm speed slow and steady. Once you start getting up on the edge of that pad, and you start to move that pad a bit quickly over the paint, the risk of holograms goes way up.

[detail4life]

Re: Holograms

Thank you very much. I believe the angle of pressure is where I am messing up.

On the boats, the panels are very large and flat, making even pressure much easier. This explains why I nearly never notice holograming on the boats. I checked the holograms on the car I just did, and sure enough, they were on the bow of the corner panel.

And yes, I know my approach was aggressive, but the scratches were deep, from where another car grazed her, and needed something powerful. However, I just bought some 205, came out perfect.

Thanks greg for the chart, very informative.

Tony

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Holograms

Thank you very much. I believe the angle of pressure is where I am messing up.

Yep, that'll get you every time, especially with more aggressive pad/liquid combinations.

[B]On the boats, the panels are very large and flat, making even pressure much easier. This explains why I nearly never notice holograming on the boats. I checked the holograms on the car I just did, and sure enough, they were on the bow of the corner panel.

Gel coat is also much harder than automotive paint so it's likely to be more resistant to hologramming in the fist place. Not completely resistant, just more so.

[B] And yes, I know my approach was aggressive, but the scratches were deep, from where another car grazed her, and needed something powerful. However, I just bought some 205, came out perfect.

Fully understood, but when you need to start with a pretty aggressive approach to get the defects out, odds are you going to have to follow with a less aggressive step to really refine the finish

[B]Thanks greg for the chart, very informative.

Tony

Greg's great at pulling things like that into a discussion!

[chethewitt]

Re: Holograms

I love using a rotary buffer with certain types of clear coats because it works through scratches so quickly. This also means its necessary to use extreme caution because its possible to go too far.

Holograms are expected most of the time when using a polish like m105. I often expect them on certain types of paint.

Below is a Ford F350 with a pretty hard clear coat. Many of the scratches were really deep so I decided to get through the scratches quickly.

Here is a collection of pictures of a 04 F350.


The clear coat was not in great shape...as you'd expect from years of improper washing/waxing etc.


Swirls were not easy to capture, but they were there.












Megs m105 on a yellow lake country pad didn't do much to the clearcoat. Unfortunately, the truck has been in 3 accidents and has been repainted in different places 3 different times.





I then switched to a rotary w/ wool pad.


Door before.





Door after.








I continued over the entire truck with the rotary and m105. This took several hours since this truck is gigantic.


After, I pulled it into the sun and took a few pictures. As you can see in the direct sunlight, holograms exist from the m105.





Whoever repainted the hood didn't use much clear coat.





After hitting the truck with m205 to remove holograms...and using chemical guys blacklight sealant.














Owner then wanted Wax on the sealant...so I finished with a decent wax from detail king.














I personally like the look of wax on top of sealant...over just sealant. Everyone has their own preference though.