Working w/ M105 on a Rotary

[BlackScreaminMachine]

Yesterday I finally got some quiet time and I was able to play with my buffer. To make a long story is that with learning the Rotary I have gotten some pretty good correction with the M105/M250 combo but M105 is dusting up and I need to figure out why.

I have searched and read some post here about M105 and how it is designed for newer paint jobs and one of the things it does with older paints is get sucked in. Also humidity and temps will play a factor as well.

Since most post mention a orbital type set up and not a Rotary, I want a different opinion with that in mind.

I saw how people stated to work a smaller area but my Makita has a 7" Pad and it covers surface area rather quickly. But here is my technique.

M105 w/ Lake Country Orange
M205 w/ LC White

Prime both pads with their respective compounds.

Wash surface w/ Gold Class wash
Dry
Claybar
Wipe with supplied detailer
Taped off a 12 x 24" section as it was a rear trunk lid.

Running 900-1200 rpms, slower arm speed and med to light arm pressure and I noticed by the first pass it would dry on and I needed to use detailer/water to wipe off and inspect.

M205 was much better really allowed me to work it in and I was pretty happy.

No pics as this was a Pewter car and it hides a lot but lets say from a pretty swirled surface with some RID's I got about 80ish% correction and either I needed to step up to a slightly more aggressive pad, more time working, pressure, or RPM. But with it dusting its hard to do the majority of my options.

I know there is the M80/M83 combo made for single stage and older stuff that has some oils in it to help work it in more. Aside from changing the product, what is the best way to work it.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Working w/ M105 on a Rotary

A couple of things first - you've posted this twice in two different areas so we've deleted the duplicate post and moved this one into the "Mastering the Rotary Buffer" section of MOL.

OK, so let's look at what you're doing and how you might minimize the dusting. You've already mentioned some variables that can impact the amount of dust, but one variable you did not mention was amount of product being used. Since you're priming your pads (assuming along the lines of the Kevin Brown Method) then you can usually get a way with a very small amount of M105 for each section pass. Try cutting the amount of M105 you're using in half if your current approach has been a fairly typical 8" to 12" bead of product laid down for pick up. For your cutting step with M105/LC Orange you need to increase your machine speed, too. 900 - 1200 rpm is fine for the finishing work with M205, but for heavy defect removal with M105 it's a bit slow. We'd go up to 1400 rpm to start and, if need be, move up to as high as 1800 rpm. But do that only if you really, really need to. Further, try working M105 a bit longer as well. At the end of the day, however, you're just simply going to get some dusting with M105, that's a given. How much you get will depend on how you work it. In some cases, like if the ambient humidity is really low, a little spritz of water from time to time can help, but you should probably cut back even further on the amount of product being used then.

As for the size of your work area, even with the size of the pads you're using, you can still keep the work area small - just avoid heat buildup and you should be just fine.

Now, with all that said, sometimes paint is just too dried out for M105 to play nicely with it. When that happens, however, it usually pulls all the moisture out of M105 and it becomes gummy on the paint and very difficult to remove. It's not a simple dusting issue, necessarily, with very dried out paint.

[VMP]

Re: Working w/ M105 on a Rotary

very good information, I´ve just tried the M105 and had some difficulties, such as you explained Michael

[BlackScreaminMachine]

Re: Working w/ M105 on a Rotary

Thanks Mike, I hear you on the duplicates, just looking for more foot traffic but I understand what you did.

The 205 had no issues, no really gum up but I will try the other recommondations to see if I notice a change.

Cleaning the pad on the fly, can you describe that better to me. I have used a towel and allowed it to rub on the pad and I have seen dried dust come off. Maybe I can get a how to on proper cleaning. For future reference.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Working w/ M105 on a Rotary

Thanks Mike, I hear you on the duplicates, just looking for more foot traffic but I understand what you did.

The 205 had no issues, no really gum up but I will try the other recommondations to see if I notice a change.

Cleaning the pad on the fly, can you describe that better to me. I have used a towel and allowed it to rub on the pad and I have seen dried dust come off. Maybe I can get a how to on proper cleaning. For future reference.

M205 is going to be much, much more forgiving than M105 due to the level of polishing oils in it. Even if absolute best case scenarios, you will never be able to work M105 as long as you can work M205 - they are vastly different animals.

Cleaning the pad on the fly with a rotary buffer is easiest to do with either a spur for wool pads or a pad brush for foam pads. A pad washer is great too, but obviously they cost substantially more than either a spur or brush so they aren't for everyone. Frequent use of a brush on foam will remove excess product that will naturally dry on the edge of the pad, and that dried product is a major source of the dust you're seeing. Combine that with excess use of product, and the dried material on the pad edge increases, directly increasing dust overall. Frequent pad cleaning is essential regardless of pad type, or buffer type.

[davepjr71]

Re: Working w/ M105 on a Rotary

Kevin Brown suggested using the following method with my rotary and purple foamed pad. Method can be used with foam pad too.

Prime pad
Place bead on paint ( I used 5-6")
Pick up bead ad work for 1-3 passes(until starts to dry) @ 1000 RPM or so
spray with water and work until dry.

I did that on my truck and here was the results using this method, M205 with black pad and BFWD:

Before:




After:

[dtuna42]

Re: Working w/ M105 on a Rotary

Now, with all that said, sometimes paint is just too dried out for M105 to play nicely with it. When that happens, however, it usually pulls all the moisture out of M105 and it becomes gummy on the paint and very difficult to remove. It's not a simple dusting issue, necessarily, with very dried out paint.

I had this problem (105 / LC orange / PC) recently doing a test section on an older black Range Rover. I also tried Ultimate Compound, which didn't gum up and was easier to remove, but didn't seem to be "strong" enough to get a reasonable amount of results. With the amount of trouble I was having with the 105/PC, I didn't even try the rotary.
Questions- If I had the gumming and difficulty removing with 105/PC, was I correct in not going to 105/rotary- or could I possibly have better results with rotary? And, assuming 105 is just not the right choice in this case, what would you recommend? I could continue with UC, but it may worth buying something else if I was reasonably confident I was going in the right direction. I know there's no way of knowing until I try, I didn't want to just order blindly either.