Starting the Rotary Journey.

[Monk]

I have been bummed about results with the DA so I bought a Hitachi rotary on Friday and commited the cardinal sin of going right at my new black car with it. Very lucky--no damage. I was tring to get a water spot that I couldn't get with the DA--the whole car has dealer installed swirls as well. Here is what I did:

Washed car and taped off a small area about 16 inches wide by 16 high.

1. Used #80 on a 8006 pad, 600 RPM and did a real fast series (about a half second to cover 16 inches across) of horizontal passes with 50% covering the prior pass--I did not go over the same area twice. Wiped. Nothing, but at least I did not instill more swirls.

2. Same but picked up speed to 1200. Was kind of afraid to look, thinking I had added swirls. Maybe some improvement but wouldn't swear to it.

3. Same as 2, but slow arm speed to where I cover one 16 inch horizontal pass in a second, and go back over the same area a second time, this time with a little pressure and a mini repass with focus on the water spot area. Again, afraid to look. Water spot is gone AS ARE THE SWIRLS in this area.

I pack the rotary away, figuring I have dodged a bullet by doing something I KNOW is a mistake and any sane person would not do. Next weekend I will buy a hood off a car at the salvage yard and do some serious practice. I drove by and saw a late model black lincoln there on Saturday.

Any suggestions on how to practice once I get the car hood? Assume there will be scratches and swirls. Suggestions for pad and product combos? Should I use the 8000 or the 8006? I have the 6.5 and 8 in backing places. I used the 6.5.

I feel better--I know there is light at the end of the swirl tunnel now.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Wow! You have guts to try out the rotary for the first time on a black car!

For the practice hood, I would use #80 with the W-8006 Polishing Pad or the W-9006 Finishing Pad. Run the rotary at around 1200-1300 RPM. Keep trying different amounts of downward pressure, arm speed etc until you start to see some of the differences. You may want to section off the hood and try different combinations of the above to see the differences in the results. Now take the hood out into the sun and look for holograms etc...

Try to position the hood vertically and then buff it again. Note the differences in difficulty to do this etc...Then add more swirls by hand and then try and remove them.

Once you get the feel for it, move on to a car, perferably not your black car. Most beginners of the rotary become quite discouraged at first as they will see holograms etc. It takes a lot of practice and more practice! But the results will be worth it!!!

Tim

[Monk]

Thanks Tim. What defect in technique would be causing the holograms (when I get them, which I guess I will), and what do I do to get rid of them? Are you saying that I might get rid of swirls but cause holograms in the process?

[Monk]

I bought a car trunk lid from the junkyard today. I'll post pics, but the Rebel digital doesn't seem to show off defects that well.
You can imagine the condition of a Crown Vic taxi trunk lid that has been in a salvage yard in an industrial area for who knows how long.

I washed, screwed it to my workbech in the garage, QDd, clayed, QDd, taped off several section and went to work on one. What a magnificent product throwing machine! I am using an orange cutting pad with 83. about 1300 RPM, slow arm movement, one pass and the material is dry. Clean, reload and go again. Trying to see if I can get the scratches out of one section completely. I bore down to where when I lifted the machine up, it was SMOKING. Scratches about 90% gone, but I will go for total scratch obliteration to see what happens.

Right now my biggest problem seems to be the product drying after one pass.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

IMO, you would be better off using the W-8006 Polishing Pad with the #83. Meg's #83 is a difficult product to begin learning the rotary with. You would be better off using #80 Speed Glaze.

As for your previous question, yes, that is what I meant. Incorrect technique as well as using too aggressive of pad or product can create holograms which show up really well in the sun. Sadly, it is tough to describe through the Internet.

Try more experimentation and then report back your findings. Then we can go from there!

Tim

[Monk]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hey,

IMO, you would be better off using the W-8006 Polishing Pad with the #83. Meg's #83 is a difficult product to begin learning the rotary with. You would be better off using #80 Speed Glaze.

As for your previous question, yes, that is what I meant. Incorrect technique as well as using too aggressive of pad or product can create holograms which show up really well in the sun. Sadly, it is tough to describe through the Internet.

Try more experimentation and then report back your findings. Then we can go from there!

Tim

For right now, I don't care if I do damage. In fact, I need to do some damage so I know the limits. I'll switch to the 8006 pad, but I do need to take off a lot of paint to get past the scratches on this little section, so I will stick to the 83 for the moment and switch to 80 on the next one--from reading other posts, I guess the 80 stays wet longer, and I have experienced this with the DA, as well, so it is probably 10 times more true with the Rotary. I have a lot more sections to work with to try different combinations. I would never work on a friend's car that is in this condition, and probably not work on a friends car with the Rotary at all. In fact, I don't know why I am even bothering to try to get any grasp at all of he Rotary, except my weird sense of "fun".

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Monk,

To me, the rotary is capable of providing a look to the finish that the DA can not duplicate. In the end, the rotary will become your best friend! Believe me, you will love it!!

Tim

[Monk]

2hotford--I've been thinking about what you said. Maybe I think too much. Are you suggesting that, the Rotary being the beast it is, the difference between 83 and 80 is minisucle compared to its power, and since 80 is easier to work with, better to go that route--in other words, that I can take off just as much paint using the Rotary with the 80 as I can the 83, so go with what's easier to use? Same sort of theory on the orange cutting pad versus the 8006?

[Tim Lingor]

Originally posted by Monk
2hotford--I've been thinking about what you said. Maybe I think too much. Are you suggesting that, the Rotary being the beast it is, the difference between 83 and 80 is minisucle compared to its power, and since 80 is easier to work with, better to go that route--in other words, that I can take off just as much paint using the Rotary with the 80 as I can the 83, so go with what's easier to use? Same sort of theory on the orange cutting pad versus the 8006?

No, the #83 with the rotary is quite a bit more aggressive than the #80. Moreover, the direct drive action of the rotary makes a huge difference.

I suggested #80 as it is easier to learn with as it stays wetter, longer. This will allow you to get the feel for the buffer etc....

Yes you can change pads with different products and get different cutting ability as a result. I sometimes use the #83 with the W-7006 pad with the rotary as it will remove deeper marring without having to go up to #84. But, #83 and the W-7006 can be a difficult combo to use with the rotary as the inexperienced user will get a lot of buffer hop! But you have to keep in mind, certain products were designed to be used with certain pads. Meg's #85 was designed to be used with the W-4000 Wool Pad. Whereas, #84 with its increased lubrication characteristics was designed to be used with the W-7006 Cutting pad.

I know there is a lot of information and a lot more to it than most realize, but hang in there! The desire to achieve a flawless finish will end up being the reward!!

Tim

[Monk]

...and you are referring to the -006 pads, which is what I have been using. I have the -000 pads, which I have no used yet, but you are saying stick with the -006, correct?

Also, for clarity sake, the orange pad I am referring to is not the 7006, it is a pad that came with my DA package and seems to cut a little more aggressive than the 8006.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Monk,

Yes...I am suggestting that you stick with the 6.5" (-006) pads as they are easier to control and IMO easier to use in difficult/tight areas.

I believe the orange pad you are using is a Lake Country light cutting pad? I can not say whether it will perform similar to the Meguiar's pads as that is what the products were designed to work with. But then again, I am sure you will be fine!

Tim

[Monk]

Tim, Tim, Tim!

WOOHOO! I utter words of profane joy.

Here's what I did with the Rotary today!!!!!

This is the decklid from the junkyard before and after.

Note that in the after pic, the Rotary had travelled somewhat over the taped section line and removed some swirls, so you need to look at the where the tape was for the real "Before" condition--the tape line is not tape residue, because I QD'd and buffed it out. In the last picture you will see that this was from an airport taxi, so I assume its paint did not receive the best of care.








In the last pic the center panel is the one I worked on, then removed the separating tape--the white spots are actually reflections of the sun shining on the leaves of the palm tree.

WHO's THE MAN!

[Tim Lingor]

Congrats!! See! I told you would love the rotary buffer! Great job!!!

Now...you just need to practice with different compounds, speeds etc and see what works for you!

Tim

[Monk]

I did switch over to the Megs pad 8006 and #80 at about 1700RPM. As you said, it let me work it a bit longer.

I had worked that 83 very hard repeatedly to try and get a deep scratch out. In the end, some of these deeper scratches seem more like indentations. I removed so much paint trying to get them, that when I removed the tape, there was a visible difference in thirckness. I could easily feel the bump up to where the tape had been. But I never broke through the clear coat. THis paint has a bluish purple speckle in it that I never saw until got it buffed out. I finished with two passes with 80 on the DA, and then a coat of tech wax.

As it turns out, the swirls were gone many passes ago--as you can see they came out "incidentally" when the buffer passed over the tape and into the other panel, and it was just my stubborness about the deep scratches that kept me doing repeated passes.

[sneek]

it looks much better