How much paint am I removing?

[gbackus]

Originally posted by Jimmy Buffit
ValuGard offers a product (which I THINK is similar to DACP) and their directions clearly state that one pass (buff to dust) will remove .3 mil.

If you're talking about Liquid paint correction cream then I don't think there is need for worry. From what I learned talking to Ron, LPCC is a controlled mechanical abbrasive that's on par with 3M rubbing compound(not the fine cut, but one step up), and is closer to Meg's Compound Power Cleaner or Dimaond Cut on a wool pad. Though being that it's mechanical rather than a diminishing abrassive I would think it might even be stronger than either of those as well. Their machine polish is closer to DACP, though I'm not sure if that's a mechanical or diminishing abrassive, they call it an SMR, but it's more agressive than some like #9 or even 3M's SMR.

[karma]

what about DACP and a rotary does this take off .3 or .5 mil in one swipe?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by gbackus
If you're talking about Liquid paint correction cream then I don't think there is need for worry. From what I learned talking to Ron, LPCC is a controlled mechanical abrasive that's on par with 3M rubbing compound(not the fine cut, but one step up), and is closer to Meg's Compound Power Cleaner or Diamond Cut on a wool pad.

Though being that it's mechanical rather than a diminishing abrasive I would think it might even be stronger than either of those as well.

In most cases, if the abrasive doesn't break down, or diminish, then it will cut longer than an abrasive that does break down. Technically, if the abrasive doesn't break down, then it's removing paint the entire time it is being worked against the finish. This type of abrading action removes a lot of paint, and tends to leave the finish scoured and swirled.

It's possible that two types of abrasives can start out at the same aggressiveness level, but if one breaks down and the other doesn't, the aggressiveness level of the one that breaks down will diminish.

Mike

[Mike Pennington]

It is almost impossible to state what amount of material will be removed in 1 pass with any product. What you must remember are all the variables.

1) What type of paint (is it a hard low VOC, or a soft lacquer)
2) RPM's of the machine (1000 or 3000)
3) Pressure applied by the operator (hard or soft)
4) Arm speed of the operator (fast or slow)

These are just to name a few.

Two people can take the same product and buff, and have totally different results as far as how much material gets removed.

It is not a good idea to place numbers on products as far as removal goes. There are just too many variables.

When you do place a number, next thing you know, you will burn through because you thought...you wern't taking that much off...oops...

Always play it safe and use the least aggressive method possible and use a digital paint thickness gauge. This way, there is no guessing involved.

Mike

[manueljlg]

Lots of interesting reading and priceless replys from Meguiars top detailers.
I posted this thread seeking an answer as an enthusiast detailer that wants to keep both of his cars in showroom condition, and is worried about removing too much clearcoat with a PC and # 83, and avoid having CC failure down the road.
After reading all the replys I conclude (correct me if I´m wrong) that I can safely and often use Meguiars most aggressive polishes designed to be used with a PC, and not worry about damaging my paint.

[Mike Pennington]

100% correct conclusion

[karma]

ok

[Superior Shine]

Jim, I am glad to hear you picked up one of thosepaint thickness gauges. I was going to order one also until I found out how much they are. I figured it is chaper to repaint a car than to buy a gauge!!


Actually mine is on the way!!!

[the other pc]

Originally posted by Setec Astronomy
... How can YOU tell when presented with a car that you don't know the history of? If it was single stage paint, it would be eaiser, but how confident can you be how much clear is left, when you see all different makes and years? Just asking, not challenging.

I think it's usually an educated guess. Most of the thickness gauges you see selling into the market for painters and detailers give a single number, effectively the distance from the sheet metal. From there a little detective work gives you ideas about what's probably going on with the finish. Of course the results are dependent on the person's knowledge and experience combined with the tool. (And most of the tools won't work on aluminum, fiberglass etc.)

If I had some big bucks to throw down I'd try an ultrasonic instrument. I'll bet a DeFelsko would be the hot ticket. Any former sonarmen should feel right at home with an NDT Systems NovaScope.


PC.

[Miracle]

Ultra-sonic units are pretty good, but a nice price too..

[Monk]

Funny I should read this thread today.

My new car was repainted to "repair" some damage at the dealership. After the repair, I had the thickness tested and it now varies from 2.5 to almost 4 times what the factory puts on it. As I understand it, this is very bad, because it will crack and peel due to being too much material. THe expert could already detect some cracking. The dealership acknowledged this, after some unpleasantness, and agreed to replace the vehicle--I just paid something towards the mileage. Surprised and pleased.

The guy who did the thickness testing for me said a bad repaint on a new car is like bad plastic surgery--sometimes it just can't ever be made "right" and progessive attempts at fixes just make it worse.

[OctaneGuy]

I'm looking at an alternative unit that costs about 1/5 the price of the ETG unit. Anyone have any comments about these specs?

Measure the thickness of a wide range of non-magnetic materials such as: paper, paint and laquer, plastic, porcelain, enamel, copper, zinc, aluminium, copper, chrome etc.

Also measure magnetic metals such as: iron and nickle

Benefits
# Get the information you need quickly - takes fast and accurate readings
# Maintenance-free operation for years – durable components are encased in a ABS-plastic casing
# Take coating readings from non-magnetic coatings on magnetic plating layers
# Wide measuring range and high resolution
# Easy-to-read digital display
# Use anywhere - suitable for use in the laboratory or in harsh field conditions
# Comfortable to use – shaped for use in right or left hand

Specifications
# Display: 4 digits, 10mm LCD
# Range: 0-1000 um/0-40mil
# Resolution: 0.1 um (0-99.9 um)
# 1 um (over 100 um)Accuracy: ± 1-3%n or 2.5 um (whichever is greater)
# Power Supply: 4x 1.5 AA (UM-3) battery (sorry – not included)
# Temperature Operating Conditions: 0-50ºC
# Humidity Operating Conditions: <80%
# Size: 161 x 69 x 32mm
# Weight: Approx 260g (when batteries inserted)
# Comes With: Sturdy carrying case with internal padding, probe, calibration foils, substrate block (iron) and operation manual

[oldmodman]

Octane Guy,

When you get the information on the alternative paint thickness guage please post up the price and where to buy it. Having a guage would certainly take the fear out of using sandpaper, wool pads, and #85!

I've wanted one for years but couldn't justify four to six hundred dollars.

[Superior Shine]

I would love to compare it to my ETG unit.

[OctaneGuy]

Hmmm, I was hoping to compare specs among the units before shelling out $$. =)

Anyone recognize the units um??


Richard