Holograms on the Merc!!

[CSI K-9]

(Mods, not sure if this is in the right spot, so feel free to move it...)

Howdy!

I'm in need of some suggestions here. I recently got my G110v2 and did some paint correction on my Dad's 1951 Mercury. If you're not familiar, here's my post:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42183

All has been going well and I couldn't be happier. I even pulled it out the other day to have a look at the hood in the afternoon sun and it looked ok, so I finished the rest of it. Yesterday, I opened up the garage door and there was the trunk in the sun and it was full of holograms!! I was so disappointed, not in Meguiar's, but myself.

My process was:

ONR
Clay
M105 x2 w/ 2.0 Polishing pad, speed 5
ONR (to get dust off)
M205 w/ 2.0 Finishing pad, speed 4

I was VERY careful to use all fresh, clean pads and microfibers, and really took my time with the D/A.

I went out today and tried some Swirl X (x2), with a 2.0 finishing and also a polishing pad, speed 2 and 3, and even 4 and 5. I tried Color X and some M07 (all on different sections). I ended up going over the whole trunk with Swirl X twice with light to medium pressure on the polisher. While the holograms are greatly reduced, they are still visible. The sun went down rather quickly and I didn't think quick enough to get my camera.

I'm sure this is a rookie mistake (we all gotta learn somewhere). I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions, another product to try, method of application, or if you think a couple more applications of Swirl X, then M07, then NXT 2.0 might take care of it. Maybe another light application of M205?

In this case, do you think maybe the paint is very soft and needs a bit gentler touch with the Swirl X and polisher, or maybe a bit more aggressive?

I will try to get some pictures tomorrow in the sun if you think it would help with suggestions.

Other than that, I'm very happy with the way all the defects came out:





Thanks all for your help!

[CieraSL]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

I'd say it's probably just micro marring from the M105. You can't create holograms with a DA - it just doesn't have the power (compared to a rotary). I had the same problem on my car - micro marring from M105. M205 wouldn't clear it up, and Optimum Finish wouldn't clear it up. I used Menzerna PO85rd on a Lake Country CCS 6.5 inch gray pad and it cleared it right up no problem. The reason I referenced Auto Geek instead of ADS is because it came out a bit cheaper. For a 6-pack of 6.5 inch pads (which you can mix and match) and 32 oz. of PO85rd, it came out to be $97 total at Auto Geek including shipping and $106 total at ADS including shipping. So yes, a bit pricey, but definitely worth it. That would be my recommendation, anyway.

[CieraSL]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Guess you kinda have the Mercury blues right now, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVjBpDbePfA

[CSI K-9]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

I used Menzerna PO85rd on a Lake Country CCS 6.5 inch gray pad and it cleared it right up no problem.

Ok, cool, thank YOU!!!! It's worth a shot!

Now, I have the G110v2 that came with the W68DA Velcro Backing Plate - - will that work with the Lake Country 6.5 inch gray pad, or do I have to buy their specific backing plate?? Is there a huge difference between that pad and the 2.0 Finishing pad? (I already ordered 6 Meguiar's pads, and don't want to order another 6, so if it's compatible, I'd like to buy one LC gray pad IF it will fit on the Meguiar's backing plate - I don't need a ton of pads, and I've spent hundreds already, I just do a section at a time when I can..)

Guess you kinda have the Mercury blues right now, huh?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVjBpDbePfA

Nice!!!! OMG, you aren't kidding!!!! (Love that song...)

The thing is, Dad isn't the least bit concerned....he doesn't think it looks that bad to begin with, but he also knows I won't stop until that car is PERFECT!!!!

Thanks again for your help...you ROCK!!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

With all due respect to Shane, before you go out and buy more pads let's give the M205 another shot. Since it offers a crazy long buffing cycle we would suggest you run it on a finishing pad with moderate pressure on speed 4 to 5 for a few passes, then slow down to speed 3 for a few more passes. Working a 2' x 2' area (or even a bit larger) you can pass over every square inch probably a dozen times without the product drying out.

Just for kicks, primarily because not every paint is going to react the same to a given input, try one test spot as stated above, then do another right next to it but skip the slowing down part. Buff for the same amount of time, just keep a constant speed and pressure. See where that gets you first.

In fact, since we mentioned that not all paint systems react the same way, we want to point out that while Shane's experience worked beautifully for him, he was working on a totally different car and paint than you are. What worked great for him in that situation may not work as well for you. It might, but you'd have to spend more money to find out first. At least with our suggestion you're not out any cash automatically. You've got a lot of product there and we're highly confident that you can achieve the results you're after with them.

[CSI K-9]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

With all due respect to Shane, before you go out and buy more pads let's give the M205 another shot. Since it offers a crazy long buffing cycle we would suggest you run it on a finishing pad with moderate pressure on speed 4 to 5 for a few passes, then slow down to speed 3 for a few more passes. Working a 2' x 2' area (or even a bit larger) you can pass over every square inch probably a dozen times without the product drying out.

Well alright, I will definitely try this for sure first! I'll report back with my results and go from there. Thanks a bunch!!

Love that crazy long M205 buffing cycle!!

[CSI K-9]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Well, I gave it a shot without much success. I used M205 in just about every way imaginable...with a polishing pad, finishing pad, heavy pressure, light pressure, moderate pressure, speed 2 through 5 and every combination in between. I worked it very slow and methodically and applied it 3-4 times over the trunk and back fender. It showed slight improvement, but still looks pretty bad when we pulled it out into the direct sunlight. I worked for HOURS on just the trunk and mostly the back fender. I really don't want to put 8+ coats of M205 on the car because we won't make it to any shows this year, but if I have to, then I have to.


Just to show you the improvement, here's part of the door that was only originally done with M105 x2 and then M205:



(After several applications of M205 today) Here's the trunk, which came out the best, but as you can see in the lower right hand corner, it's not completely gone:



Close up shot of the back fender, which had the most effort put into it:



And finally, the whole back fender after several applications of M205:


*sigh*

I'm not exactly sure whether the paint is so hard and the M205 just isn't strong enough to take out the micro marring from the M105, or whether the paint is so soft that the M205 is still micro marring it. What do you think??

Correct me if I'm wrong, for a proper paint correction there shouldn't be ANY kind of marks in the paint before I use M07 and NXT 2.0, right??

Soooooo, I guess I'm looking for more suggestions. I might look into trying what Shane suggested. I'm just getting so darn fed up and frustrated right now. I know there has GOT to be something out there and I know it's going to be a lot of work, but in the end I'm sure it will be worth it.

Anyone know if the Lake Country 6.5 inch pads will fit the backing plate that came with the G110v2?? Or if there's much difference between the LC pads and the Meg's finishing/polishing pads?

Thank you in advance for any help

[CieraSL]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Eeek! Yeah, that's micro marring from M105. I kinda doubt that's from M205. That's what I was dealing with, although not quite that bad. PO85rd has good working time, so you can work it until the marring is removed. I didn't have any problems with it dusting either. I would get two gray pads though instead of one - I only wound up needing two, and that was cleaning the pad with a toothbrush every so often. By the way, you don't have to buy another backing plate for the 6.5 inch LC pads if you don't want to. Here's a gray pad on the backing plate that came with the G110v2:





Pardon the polishing dust on the polisher. Given, it would probably be better if you had a bit smaller backing plate so there would be more of a safety margin between the edge of the pad and the edge of the backing plate, but the pad is thick enough that unless you're just going crazy and not paying attention it shouldn't be a problem.

[CieraSL]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

BTW, after using M105 on a Soft Buff 2.0 polishing pad and PO85rd on a 6.5 inch gray LC CCS pad, and I applied my sealant and LSP, this is the kind of finish I got:

[CSI K-9]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Thanks again Shane

I was doing some reading on the PO85rd. Just curious as to what the difference is and what the advantage is over M205 in my situation. Is it that you think maybe the M205 isn't strong enough, or just the opposite?

And the LC pads in comparison with Meg's pads - softer? more aggressive? Again, just curious. I know nothing about Menzerna or LC.

I'm trying to learn exactly what the problem is, so next time I will know exactly which route to take. I have a black 2010 Tahoe to do next...granted, I'll most likely use Swirl X because it's no where near as bad as the Merc was, just some DISO's

Pardon the polishing dust on the polisher

Well, it is a polisher, isn't it?? Don't worry, mine looks the same...especially after all the work today!

Yes, I've followed your detailing work and the work you've done on your car and I must say it's quite impressive. (I'm a big follower of you and Tuck91..) Now, let me ask you, did you even remotely have ANY micro marring present after the PO85rd and prior to the sealant and LSP? Did your car only require one application of the PO85rd, or several? Had you tried the M205 prior to the PO85rd?

Does anyone think that I went overboard by using the M105/M205 method? I did try Swirl X (by hand) and NXT 2.0 prior to using the polisher and it did next to nothing. I had some deep scratches on the front fenders and water etchings all over the car before I began. Is this micro marring something you ultimately have to do in order to do a proper paint correction, or simply a mistake on my end?

Sorry for all the questions, but all this just has me curious. Thanks again for your help!

Is there anyone else that has had this type of issue, and what did you do to correct it?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Have you tried going over these areas with SwirlX on either a polishing or finishing pad? It has a bit more cut than M205 and it might just do the trick.

[Mister B]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Or maybe even M105 on a finishing pad? Hey, you never now?

[CieraSL]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Thanks again Shane

I was doing some reading on the PO85rd. Just curious as to what the difference is and what the advantage is over M205 in my situation. Is it that you think maybe the M205 isn't strong enough, or just the opposite?

On the Meguiar's scale of 1-12, M205 rates a 4. On the Menzerna scale of 1-5, PO85rd rates a 1. So I think they are close in cut but I think PO85rd is perhaps a bit less aggressive.

And the LC pads in comparison with Meg's pads - softer? more aggressive? Again, just curious. I know nothing about Menzerna or LC.

See this thread for comparison: Lake Country vs. Meguiar's Pad Compo Chart. You can read here to see some of the benefits of CCS pads (vs. flat pads). M105 cleared up my original swirls and scratches beautifully on a flat polishing pad (minus some etch marks and RIDS). However, I couldn't get my paint to respond to a less aggressive polish (M205 and Optimum Finish) on either a Meg's flat polishing pad or finishing pad to clear up the micro marring, so I had to move to a slightly less aggressive product and a pad that gave me a longer working time. Then I was able to get the results I was after. This is where you really get the benefit of a test spot. After trying M205 and Optimum Finish on a panel or two and seeing that I wasn't getting the results I was after, I stopped, and didn't do anything else until getting PO85rd and my gray pads. That on speed 5 gave me what I wanted. I tried speed 4 first and then bumped it up to 5. So do your test spot and proceed from there. That's why I have different kinds of polishes and pads - we have 5 cars total (6 counting my sister's car) - 4 Hondas and my Olds. Each car and paint is different, so I have to be prepared to deal with each one separately.

I'm trying to learn exactly what the problem is, so next time I will know exactly which route to take. I have a black 2010 Tahoe to do next...granted, I'll most likely use Swirl X because it's no where near as bad as the Merc was, just some DISO's

Again, do your test spot first before doing the whole thing, especially an SUV the size of a Tahoe. Find out what the paint best responds to, then repeat that process over the rest of the vehicle.

Well, it is a polisher, isn't it?? Don't worry, mine looks the same...especially after all the work today!

Yes, I've followed your detailing work and the work you've done on your car and I must say it's quite impressive. (I'm a big follower of you and Tuck91..) Now, let me ask you, did you even remotely have ANY micro marring present after the PO85rd and prior to the sealant and LSP? Did your car only require one application of the PO85rd, or several? Had you tried the M205 prior to the PO85rd?

Thank you for the compliment. No, I had absolutely no micro marring present after the PO85rd. I was using a Fenix P3D LED flashlight to check my work, and I viewed each panel at different angles under the light and I couldn't find any leftover marring. I had tried M205 prior on both a Meg's polishing pad and finishing pad. On my car, I just worked the PO85rd in for a minute or two on small sections, making several section passes. You'll have to see how long you need to work it in to get results. The nice thing is it has great working time, so that will help save product as well.

Does anyone think that I went overboard by using the M105/M205 method? I did try Swirl X (by hand) and NXT 2.0 prior to using the polisher and it did next to nothing. I had some deep scratches on the front fenders and water etchings all over the car before I began. Is this micro marring something you ultimately have to do in order to do a proper paint correction, or simply a mistake on my end?

No, I don't think you went overboard at all. In fact, that was going to be my process - M105 followed by M205. That changed after I couldn't get the results I was after with M205. Whether or not you get micro marring and how you deal with it is dependent on the machine, pads, products, and the hardness and color of the paint. You may or not get micro marring when polishing. If you get it on a black car, obviously you're going to see it all the time so you want to fix it. If you get it on a white or silver car, it may not even show up under sunlight or artificial light, or if it does probably not to the extent where it's going to matter if it's fixed or not, so you could potentially just leave it. My point is, this is your car. You have to be the one who decides what you can and can't live with. Get it to where you want it, and then use the proper products, tools, and techniques to keep it looking that way. That's the great thing about detailing - you can tailor just about everything to fit you and your needs.

Sorry for all the questions, but all this just has me curious. Thanks again for your help!

Is there anyone else that has had this type of issue, and what did you do to correct it?

That's why we're here. Hope I've helped you in some way, and I hope you can get your car to where you want it. Don't forget to share some follow-up pictures with us.

[CSI K-9]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Have you tried going over these areas with SwirlX on either a polishing or finishing pad? It has a bit more cut than M205 and it might just do the trick.

I did, along with Color X and M07.

I went out today and tried some Swirl X (x2), with a 2.0 finishing and also a polishing pad, speed 2 and 3, and even 4 and 5. I tried Color X and some M07 (all on different sections). I ended up going over the whole trunk with Swirl X twice with light to medium pressure on the polisher. While the holograms are greatly reduced, they are still visible.....

[CSI K-9]

Re: Holograms on the Merc!!

Or maybe even M105 on a finishing pad? Hey, you never now?

When I originally did the car, I started with M105 and it hazed quite a bit, so I'm not sure I'd go that route.