Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

[the_invisible]

So, it was suggested to me that I try out the LC Purple Foamed Wool pads designed for the Dual Action Polishers to deal with the tough BMW paint. While aggressive foam pads are capable of removing defects from the hard BMW paint, I want something that would take out defects much quicker. This foam wool pad is supposed to have the best of both wool and foam pads. It takes out defects really quickly like traditional wool pads, but without marring or creating holograms caused by wool pads. the PFW pad is also designed for the Dual Action, and Autogeek has been selling DA bundles with this pad. It is also used extensively by professionals with the rotary.

Can't wait to test it out. I realize that like the yellow pad, this pad is not very popular for use on Japanese and American cars. This pad is extremely popular on BMW forums. I plan to use this with M105 for both wetsanding jobs and heavy swirls or RIDS.

I bought three of these pads for $22.50 on Autogeek. A guy on MOL has used this on his domestic pickup truck. The result was nothing an orange foam pad could not achieve.

Has anybody used this product before?

[Bounty]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

Yes I have used them many times on both my PC and Flex. Not sure what the question is....

Do they work? Yes. Can they remove deeper defects than an orange pad? On certain paint surfaces yes. On softer paint surfaces you may not see as substantial a difference.

On thing I really like is that although they cut about equal to an orange pad (or a little more) on softer paints they tend to not leave as much induced damage (hazing, micromarring, etc) when worked properly. The lack of holograms is probably due to the motion and power (or lack thereof) of the PC more than the pad composition. I've gone from a PFW/M105 to CCS Green/M205 on more than a few details.

It's not the "end-all, be-all" of pads but it has a place in every serious detailer's arsenal if you aren't using a rotary. It ups the potential defect-removal ability of your PC...

[PuDeN]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

I have this PFW also. But never tried it yet. so cant say much. Many of my friends here in Malaysia use this PFW also. Hope they would chime in and give their opinions.

[InfiniteDetail]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

Audionut Mike and I have used it quite a bit on the rotary and flex with really good results. We've used it with M105 and the flex to remove moderate swirls on hard paint.

We have also used it to remove wetsanding marks, but it will take 4-5 applications as opposed to 1-2 applications with a rotary and a Megs solo maroon wool pad.

It's definitely a nice product to have in your bag. It's similar to the Meg's solo yellow pad in cut and finish.

[KC's]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

I heard from my distributors here in malaysia, this is good wool pad...aggressiveness dependent on which type of Liquid used. M105...is good to remove sand marks...DA i am not so sure..but i have just tried my Double sided LC with Makita yesterday......its razor sharp....remove anything .....cheers

[TH0001]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

Wool pads have an inherent problem when used on a dual-action polisher. The stroke (which is about 5/16ths of an inch) is absorbed by the long (1 inch) nap of the pad unless the pad is rotating at enough speed to cause the centpetial force to pull the wool fibers taut.

I have always gotten better cut using a dedicated foam cutting pad because the stiffer foam does a better job of transfering the motion of the machine to the paint. Because the orbital 'jiggle' is greatley absorbed with in the nap of the pad, you basically are left with a low RPM rotary.

This doesn't effect the Flex as much because it has a fixed RPM of 480 at maximum speed. However a random orbital DA such as a PC or G110, you will want to keep the pressure light to keep the pad speed high.

Just my 2 cents, worth 1 cent in this economy and maybe less if taxes are increased.

[KC's]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

Wool pads have an inherent problem when used on a dual-action polisher. The stroke (which is about 5/16ths of an inch) is absorbed by the long (1 inch) nap of the pad unless the pad is rotating at enough speed to cause the centpetial force to pull the wool fibers taut.

I have always gotten better cut using a dedicated foam cutting pad because the stiffer foam does a better job of transfering the motion of the machine to the paint. Because the orbital 'jiggle' is greatley absorbed with in the nap of the pad, you basically are left with a low RPM rotary.

This doesn't effect the Flex as much because it has a fixed RPM of 480 at maximum speed. However a random orbital DA such as a PC or G110, you will want to keep the pressure light to keep the pad speed high.

Just my 2 cents, worth 1 cent in this economy and maybe less if taxes are increased.

it still makes sense in your cents

I tend to agree
thanks
for sharing

[the_invisible]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

I agree that the wool naps would be bogged down by the low speed of a DA. But it seems that many DA users are getting great results from this pad. The fact that AG sells this pad packaged with the PC speaks volume. But I agree. I guess I will have to test it out myself.

Knowing that Bounty has gotten some good results out of these pads on the PC makes me feel better about ordering them.

I heard that although this pad may not have the amount of cut of the stiffer yellow foam pad, it still outperforms the foam pads in removing wetsanding marks on the DA. If maximum cut is desired, as in the case of removing oxidation and severe scratches, the yellow LC pad is by far the best pad for the job.

I think the wool has less amount of cut on a DA, but the rate at which it cuts is increased, making it more ideal for removing wetsanding marks on a DA compared to the LC Yellow. I have been removing wetsanding marks on some OEM paint with the orange pad with good results.

[TH0001]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

I agree that the wool naps would be bogged down by the low speed of a DA. But it seems that many DA users are getting great results from this pad.

The wool nap doesn't bog down the machine as much as it absorbs the motion of the machine. An random orbital polisher only drives the orbital motion, which is similar to rubbing your hand in tight circles. As the wool is pressed against the paint, it folds over and lays on itself, creating slack in the fibers.

The drive of a Porter Cable or G110 is 5/32 of an inch in radius, the nap of a foamed wool pad is much longer. As the machine orbits (little circular movements) the slack in the nap absorbs of the movement. The machine is moving, but the nap touching the paint may not even move. Most, if not all of the orbital motion is lost in the wool fibers.

The best analogy I can give to better explain this is to think of a wet mop. Hold the mop so that roughly 3/4s of the nap is resting on the ground (and folds over itself). Now move the mop handle like you are stirring a pot. You will see the mop fibers roll over themselves, and even if you are moving the mop in a large circle, the fibers contacting the floor will move very little, and might not move at all.

So the only movement from the machine that will transfer will be the spinning motion (RPMs) of the pad. The Flex DA is forced, and should deliver about 480 RPM's unloaded at max speed. The Porter Cable is not forced, and the rotational speed will depend on many factors, but lets just assign a number of 200 RPM's. Using a wool pad with significant wool length essentially turns the DA into a low speed rotary, since it absorbs the motions that make a DA a DA.

It is my opinion that you have to be very leery of information that you get on forums. Most of the information posted is regurgitated misinformation from people.

For example, people love to give their opinions on products and state their opinions as facts. A new wax comes out and five people try it and love it, then a sixth person tries it and hates it. How is this possible? Products react differently to different surfaces found on different vehicles, I always have stated that you don't know how a product works unless you use it on at least 20 different vehicles (not four vehicles five times). Go to any forum and you will see this scenario play out over and over.

Several years ago on Autopia, I posted that I was getting filling using certain Menzerna polishes. The thread turned ugly and a lot of people told me I was crazy (however some very credible details PM'd me and told me they experienced it that as well). I called some of the people that argued with me and told me that I was wrong and after talking to them I was surprised what I learned...

Most of the them had used the polish on 3-4 cars, some less, some more. Most of them used a Porter Cable a couple times a year. Yet they where going to fight and tell me I was wrong even though I had gone through 6 bottles of the product and probably over 100 cars in various conditions, on various paints, etc. It wasn't that they where wrong, they where just so inexperienced that they didn't know they where inexperienced.

I do not doubt that people are getting good results with a wool pad on a PC or Flex. Using the wool will increase the surface area (and those the potential amount of fresh, sharp, clustered abrasives rubbing against the paint. I would be shocked if those people used the yellow pad in comparison and found that the wool pad outperformed it regularly.

The fact that AG sells this pad packaged with the PC speaks volume. But I agree. I guess I will have to test it out myself.

Your best bet is to test this out yourself. I know that Makita used sell their Makita rotary with a cotton bonnet a couple of years ago for wax application! FWIW.

I heard that although this pad may not have the amount of cut of the stiffer yellow foam pad, it still outperforms the foam pads in removing wet sanding marks on the DA. If maximum cut is desired, as in the case of removing oxidation and severe scratches, the yellow LC pad is by far the best pad for the job.

Removing wet sanding marks and scratches is, in essence the same thing. You are removing a certain amount of paint, and you want to remove it in the most level manner possible. For a wool pad to truly level paint it needs to spin at a high enough rate to allow the fibers to be pulled taut by centripetal force. Otherwise the you are trying to create a flat surface with a pillow.

While nothing is set in stone, a product that removes sanding scratching in the most efficient manner (on a particular paint) is going to remove deep scratching in the most efficient manner as well (on that particular paint).

I think the wool has less amount of cut on a DA, but the rate at which it cuts is increased, making it more ideal for removing wet sanding marks on a DA compared to the LC Yellow. I have been removing wet sanding marks on some OEM paint with the orange pad with good results.

The wool should have less cut then a stiff foam on a low rotational speed random orbital for the reasons above. If the rate of cut is increase, so is the total cut, since cut should be measured over time. You simply cannot have one with out the other, IMO, unless I am not understanding what you are saying (which, given my lack of intelligence is completely possible).

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

The wool nap doesn't bog down the machine as much as it absorbs the motion of the machine. An random orbital polisher only drives the orbital motion, which is similar to rubbing your hand in tight circles. As the wool is pressed against the paint, it folds over and lays on itself, creating slack in the fibers.

Correct-O-mundo!

The drive of a Porter Cable or G110 is 5/32 of an inch in radius, the nap of a foamed wool pad is much longer. As the machine orbits (little circular movements) the slack in the nap absorbs of the movement. The machine is moving, but the nap touching the paint may not even move. Most, if not all of the orbital motion is lost in the wool fibers.

Yessiree!

A LOT of pressure would need to be placed upon the pad to compress it, consequently removing the "cushioning" of the machine's movements.

I do not doubt that people are getting good results with a wool pad on a PC or Flex. Using the wool will increase the surface area (and those the potential amount of fresh, sharp, clustered abrasives rubbing against the paint. [/COLOR][/FONT]

Right-E-o!

I think that the guys using a wool pad with the random orbital are getting the results they are for the reasons you have stated.
Can it work? Yes. Is it the most efficient use of the machine? Likely not (for many of the reasons you state, and then some).

That's not to say that a person should NOT use a wool pad with a random orbital (I personally never do). It's like Mike Phillip's always says: "Find something you like and use it often". Joe from Superior Shine has used wool pads on the PC (check out his "bus" write-up, as well as his "airplane" write-ups). In the case of the bus gig, the strings likely contour very well around the rivets and window and ridges of the bus panels. Plus there is so much wool surface area (and the fibers are able to twist about), that the pad can be used for extended periods of time before replacement or cleaning of the pad is needed, or reapplication of more buffing liquid is necessary.

Same goes for the airplane's aluminum skin and the interaction of the wool and polishing compounds. I am not speaking for Joe here... just a suspicion.

I agree 100% that in most cases there are MUCH better alternatives to a wool pad paired with a random orbital.

Great thread!

[Bounty]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

Knowing that Bounty has gotten some good results out of these pads on the PC makes me feel better about ordering them.

I have gotten good results on certain paint surfaces with a random orbital and a PFW pad but have gotten great results with the forced rotation dual-action Flex and the Flex rotary. This is where wool pads and the combination pads (wool/foam) work best...in conjunction with some degree of forced rotation.

When compared to the LC Yellow I'd pick just about anything else...especially if we're talking about the Autogeek versions. They have some of the lowest grade foam pads. Period. The ones that basically look like a foam tuna can and feel like Brillo. I've had lots of induced damage from those and no longer use them.

Invest in pads that have researched and proven features and quality like the ones from ADS or PAC. They use higher quality foam compositions, different backing/mounting styles (raised, recessed, etc), pressure foam layers, beveled edges, etc. A lot of trial-and-error and heavy research went into the designs of those pads and you should reap the benefits by grabbing some.

All that being said, I like to utilize the "tool box" approach to detailing. As such, I have three machines (random orbital PC, Flex DA, and now Flex rotary), more pads of all colors/varieties/compositions than I can count, and a variety of products many of which are outside the Meg's line. Why? Because you'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. The PFW pad falls into that category. I don't use it often but I have used it with success. If you're strictly looking for more performance from a foam pad I'd look to better designed offerings from ADS and PAC first...

And I know you've heard this before but if you plan to be working on exceptionally hard clear coats on a regular basis as well as wetsanding mark removal I'd look into possibly upgrading machine. Can you remove wetsanding marks with a PC? Sure. Are there many, many cases where you can do it faster, easier, and more efficiently with a Flex or rotary? Definitely. I wouldn't replace the PC but rather add a heavy gun to your arsenal if you start regularly pushing the PC to it or your limits...

[the_invisible]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

Great replies, fellas!!!

I think I will be getting a Makita very soon. I have been successfully removing wetsanding marks with a PC XP and the yellow and orange pads. I simply thought the PFW would do the job faster. If I am not satisfied with the PFW on a DA, a rotary will be purchased immediately.

I got all my CCS Lake Country Pads from ADS. The only pads I have purchased from AG are the PFW.

[the_invisible]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

Alright, so I cancelled my order at AG for the PFW.

Instead I ordered some Surbuf pads to deal with some tracer marks I am having. Anybody wants to chime in on this? Is Surbuf a little too aggressive??

To remove sanding marks, which is more safe? DA + Surbuf or Rotary + Wool?

[Paul S]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

DA + Surbuf pads. PorscheGuy997 nailed it. Made me a believer at his Midwest Get Together as I also have posted on other forums. He demonstrated with a black hood using Unigrit papers and 205 compound.Try it , you won;t be dissappointed.

Paul S

[the_invisible]

Re: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads

Paul, I've already ordered the Surbuf pads KB was talking about on Autopia. The 6.5" R series Microfingers. He's been able to remove 1500 grit sanding marks with it using a DA. That's simply amazing. I've been able to remove sanding marks without a problem using a DA with a foam pad. However he did not mention about tracers. Removing sanding scratches is not hard with a DA. It's the deeper tracers that are nasty, in my opinion.

Seeing that the Surbuf is so powerful, I wonder if it is more dangerous to use than the wool.