G110 or Flex

[john m.]

Re: G110 or Flex

Kevin, tons of great information in your posts!! I have really been debating on a G110, PC 7424XP, and the Flex. After reading your posts I think Im leaning now more towards the G110 or PC for one because of price but they really are versitile and you can do some remarkable things with them.

[Kevin Brown]

Re: G110 or Flex

... If you're needing to buy supplies soon, go with the G110 and a whole mess of product at the same time.
Don't forget to load up on pads too.

Very good advice on the pad recommendation!

Vary your collection by investing in different diameters, thicknesses, levels of aggressiveness, and even pad-face designs.

[ColonelCash]

Re: G110 or Flex

I hate to throw another contender into the ring, but the Porter Cable 7242 XP is a bit more powerful than a G110 and comes with a 3 year warranty where the G110 only has a 1 year. Been selling for around 115-130 online. If I were in the market, that is where I'd stick my money.

[Kevin Brown]

Re: G110 or Flex

Forget the choices for a moment..

What is that horrific thing in you avatar?!?!? Wow. I may have to lay off the coffee. And start wearing shoes to protect my toes.

[kaptain_zero]

Re: G110 or Flex

I'm going to throw my 1.3 shekels into the mix with this thought. I've only had a PC for a month , after having waffled over the same issue of buying either the PC or the Flex. I'm glad I went with the PC and for the price of that Flex I could have TWO PC's which would really make me happy because I'm getting dog gone tired of swapping out backing plates when switching from a 4" to 6.5" pads and back...... I don't do enough work yet to justify getting the second PC just yet so I spent my $$ on pads and supplies but I will be getting a second PC (the XP this time) to round things out.


Kevin, in regards to the Flex and it's forced rotation, do not forget that it indeed is a FORCED rotation as well as the orbits. It may seem that the PC can duplicate those rotational speeds as well as the orbits, but when you add enough pressure to the PC to stall the the rotation, you've also stalled most if not all orbital motion of the pads working *surface* and expending the PC's energy into flexing the interior of the pad structure. In the same pressure scenario, the Flex will keep on chugging away, forcing that rotation and by doing so, adds enough slippage through lubrication to keep the orbits moving as well.... Frankly it's all a bit tricky without a high speed camera filming from the underside of say a Plexiglas surface where actual movement of the working surface of the pad could measured but alas... there's only so much time and money for such research, right?

As for that nasty looking avatar, don't worry Kevin, I'll save you!

Regards

Christian aka

Kaptain "Xray vision" Zero

[ColonelCash]

Re: G110 or Flex

Forget the choices for a moment..

What is that horrific thing in you avatar?!?!? Wow. I may have to lay off the coffee. And start wearing shoes to protect my toes.

Fizzgig from Dark Crystal. Cool enough for Mike Stoops to name one of his pets after.

[Kevin Brown]

Re: G110 or Flex

Most excellent points, my man!

Kevin, in regards to the Flex and it's forced rotation, do not forget that it indeed is a FORCED rotation as well as the orbits.

Yes.

It may seem that the PC can duplicate those rotational speeds as well as the orbits, but when you add enough pressure to the PC to stall the the rotation, you've also stalled most if not all orbital motion of the pads working *surface* and expending the PC's energy into flexing the interior of the pad structure.

Yes.
This is especially true with tall or very pliable pads (as previously stated):

Some pads have a tendency to negate the machine's movements... and ...If a tall or super-pliable pad is used, it can absorb a lot of the machine movement, so if this is the case, a short or stiffer pad may be needed to polish paint in a timely manner.

To add to the point...
When the rotation stalls due to friction, the pad jiggles about like a bowl of Jell-O! This is why backing plate/pad rotation should be looked upon as not only something we want (to whatever degree when using a random orbital), but as a guide to pad choice. If the backing plate rotation stalls easily when added pressure is applied, perhaps the pad should be changed (diameter, aggressiveness stiffness, height, or material) rather than continuing to add pressure.

In the same pressure scenario, the Flex will keep on chugging away, forcing that rotation and by doing so, adds enough slippage through lubrication to keep the orbits moving as well....

Yes, good point but let's not forget the other side of the coin (as previously stated):

... If a light touch is used to polish, the forced rotation machine might limit the rotation, whereas the random orbital machine would not.

A side note to your point: Whereas a random orbital can handle a "side loading of pressure" (the user tilts the machine slightly, consequently focusing pressure to a smaller area), the Flex barks immediately because the backing plate starts to rub against the machine housing.

Frankly it's all a bit tricky without a high speed camera filming from the underside of say a Plexiglas surface where actual movement of the working surface of the pad could be measured... but alas... there's only so much time and money for such research, right? :

I think most guys can visualize what you are talking about.

...but alas... there's only so much time and money for such research, right? :

That is why I make stuff like this!:

[kaptain_zero]

Re: G110 or Flex

Ahah! I can see it's going to take a bigger man than I to pull the MF bonnet over YOUR polishing pad!

Looking forward to your full paper.

And for the record, I'll still save you from that avatar should the need arise.

Regards

Christian

That is why I make stuff like this!:

[Bounty]

Re: G110 or Flex

A side note to your point: Whereas a random orbital can handle a "side loading of pressure" (the user tilts the machine slightly, consequently focusing pressure to a smaller area), the Flex barks immediately because the backing plate starts to rub against the machine housing.

Just as a quick adjunct to this point...this was an issue with some of the early models of Flex along with a variety of other backing plate issues. Newer models suffer neither from the dreaded felt ring meltdown syndrome (come lubricated from factory) nor the backing plate problems. Also, experienced Flex guys know that three immediate things you need to do upon buying a Flex are a) lubricate the felt ring, b) add a washer to the backing plate, and c) tighten the assembly.

I've used the Flex at an angle for specific applied pressure over defects with beveled-edge pads and the modifications above and had no issues whatsoever over hundreds of uses...

That is why I make stuff like this!:

That is just cool...

[Kevin Brown]

Re: G110 or Flex

Just as a quick adjunct to this point...this was an issue with some of the early models of Flex along with a variety of other backing plate issues. Newer models suffer neither from the dreaded felt ring meltdown syndrome (come lubricated from factory) nor the backing plate problems. Also, experienced Flex guys know that three immediate things you need to do upon buying a Flex are a) lubricate the felt ring, b) add a washer to the backing plate, and c) tighten the assembly.

I've used the Flex at an angle for specific applied pressure over defects with beveled-edge pads and the modifications above and had no issues whatsoever over hundreds of uses...

This is good to know...
The machine I used last week did not have an added washer. I know it didn't because I took it apart!
Do you have to file two flat edges onto a round washer? I am guessing that you are referring to this part of the backing plate:



If not, you must be referring to adding another washer between the bolt and backing plate (which my VERY recent Internet search suggests on this thread):

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/porter-cable-7424-buffing-pad-forum/12158-flex-problems-noooooooooooooo.html

If you are referring to this, then it suggests that the factory washer is too thin and bends, or the bolt is a little long?
It seems that it would be better to simply increase the distance between the backing plate and housing...

Either way, thanks for the helpful advice!

[MarkH]

Re: G110 or Flex

My Flex is red

The Washington Capital's home jerseys are red

Get a Flex

[Kevin Brown]

Re: G110 or Flex

Ahah! I can see it's going to take a bigger man than I to pull the MF bonnet over YOUR polishing pad! 9

Don't be silly... I had some super-tiny ones made to fit the ballpoint tips.

Looking forward to your full paper. Regards,
Christian

This makes two of us.
I may need to mentally prepare for the onslaught of debates that are bound to take place. Unless everyone decides the paper is far too long, at which point they will just look at the pictures and read the last page to see how it all ends.

Does anyone sell "online battle gear"? I may need an "outfit" for protection...

[Kevin Brown]

Re: G110 or Flex

My Flex is red

The Washington Capital's home jerseys are red

Get a Flex

Or you can get a Milwaukee rotary (which is also red), and a Milwaukee Admirals hockey jersey!

I found this kit for you:

[3Fitty]

Re: G110 or Flex

There is but ONE hockey team that matters!

[Tom Weed]

Re: G110 or Flex

I am going to say the Flex if you can afford it. I have both the 3401 Dual Action Random Orbit Polisher and the 3403 Lightweight Rotary. I also have a PC 7424 and a PC 7428 rotary and two Dynabrade attachments and Griots Random Orbital polisher.

I maybe doing this backwards as things have changed since the 3401 came into play with 105. Previously I was using a rotary to correct with, but the dust, splatter and taping I wasn't thrilled with and then would follow that with the PC 7424 to finish with. These days I use 3401 to correct with and finish with the 3403 rotary with 205 and either a finishing or polishing pad and it's been working great.

As for the Dynabrades, they do work great, but they also add a lot of weight to the rotary. If you are polishing flat surfaces it's great, but go to the side panels and it's going to get heavy. I brought Dynabrades to the Midwest get together along with both Flex machines and it seemed that the Flex 3403 rotary was a real hit.