Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

[Bounty]

Well, after having a few test details with borrowed Flex's I stepped to the plate and made the call over to Rick at ADS. Rick has a Flex Complete Kit that comes with the 3401, the Flex bag, 6 LC CCS beveled pads in your choice of color, and 3 free microfiber towels all for $320...that's the best deal on the net by far and when you factor in Rick's longstanding reputation for customer service excellence it's a no-brainer. He was also able to procure the sought-after side handle that comes with the rotary Flex version for me...

Big brown truck brought this in today...



I decided to pull out my trusty PC-7424 for some side by side comparisons. Here's the two for size reference purposes...





And here's a shot with the side handles attached...



Some people had asked me about the manueverability of the Flex versus the PC-7424 or G110. Here's some one-handed wielding shots to give you an idea of the size and grip...





From a one-handed standpoint the Flex is longer, narrower, and slightly heavier so the natural grip is not as comfortable as the PC. In addition the forced rotation aspect doesn't lend itself to a lot of weak gripped one-handed situations so I would not recommend it.

After turning on the Flex to insure everything was working properly I can tell you the machine just feels powerful. Going beyond speed setting 3 really lets you know you're dealing with a more serious machine than the PC and the longer throw (8mm for the Flex) gives you a smoother vibration feel which translates to longer working times with less fatigue.

Features I liked very much are the smooth start variable-speed trigger meaning I don't have to stop to change speed settings to spread polish, then work product, then conduct a finishing pass. If a speed change is required the speed dial is conveniently located near your thumb. The trigger lock is also neat and readily accessible just above the trigger itself. The Flex bag holds the machine nicely and is sturdily built. Paperwork with the Flex describes a 2-year warranty.

The side handle is great for large areas and horizontal surfaces as it allows you to constantly control the machine's level even when your stretched out working on the center of a hood or roof. The bail handle is great for adding pressure and vertical panel control. I'm glad I got both. There is also a lot less transmitted vibration through the "Soft-Vib" side handle. The extra 3 feet of cord gives me more room to work than the PC and it's hard to explain but the cord for the Flex feels higher in quality and construction. In fact, the whole machine does. You really feel like your working with a professional machine...

Some of the things I did not like initially where the added weight over the PC (although not much) and the lack of interchangeable backing plates. The machine itself also sits lower to the panel you're working on so a little more attention is needed in tight spaces. Also, the instructions could be a bit more detailed but, hey, they did come in 17 languages...

All in all, I really like this machine and holding it really made me remember why I enjoyed those details with it. The corrective power over the PC is dramatic and should even higher levels of correction be needed, the KBM works here too. Over the coming weeks I have three cars (two Toyota Corolla S's and a BMW 3-series) that will be the first completed with this machine. Stay tuned for my side by side comparisons in performance and pictoral accounts. Thanks for reading...

[cardriver]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

Thanks for the initial review! I've been saving up to drop a few hundred on my first DA kit & supplies and am very happy with ADS as well. I had the G110 in mind because I adore Megs, but was recently brought to the issue of the number of passes required with such a DA vs the stronger Flex. Well, more decisions to make... I'm a nut spender when it comes to supplies, so I might even purchase both :facepalm:.

Please keep us updated with future experiences and comparisons between this and the G110! My state & fed return checks just came in this week and it's tempting...

[3Fitty]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

Bounty,

Great and useful review. Thanks. That answered a lot of my questions and just increased my desire to get one.

Just trying to figure out how to hoodwink wifey into thinking it is a needed expense! LOL

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

Great review. Before your review I was sitting on the fence about this. I think I am going to order one sooner then later. Thanks again for the initial review.

[rgcurtis]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

Bounty, are you kidding me....I just dropped $275 on the G110 and supplies. Now, you are telling me this one is better.....great! It will take me a year to convince the other half I need to get the flex. No, really, that is cool.

[cardriver]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

Haha, tell me about it. Last night I spent $315 on my G110 and a ton of supplies. Even if the Flex is more powerful and may require fewer passes (I was very tempted), the loyalty factor led me to stick with the G110, since everything I use is Meguiars .

[Bounty]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

Haha, tell me about it. Last night I spent $315 on my G110 and a ton of supplies. Even if the Flex is more powerful and may require fewer passes (I was very tempted), the loyalty factor led me to stick with the G110, since everything I use is Meguiars .

Honestly guys, the G110 is a good machine and with the introduction of M105/M205 and the KBM it can correct a wide variety of defects. In addition, if you ever have an issue or need advice, the manufacturer's representatives are right here on this forum to help out (that's big).

I got a great offer for my used one so I sold it and kept the PC7424 and Flex. The PC is just so versatile with all of the backing plates and pad combos available. Remember, however you can switch backing plates and/or pads on the G110 so don't limit yourself!

Meguiar's official recommendation for use with their pads is to limit the machine to speed setting 5. But at that speed it's less powerful than a PC7424 on speed 6. The reason is they've had some issues with pad backings separating or being damaged by the high speed setting/pressure and so do not officially recommend it. You can always slap some LC CCS pads on there and go to town with your G110. I like Meguiar's G110 and if someone hadn't offered me practically brand-new value for it I would have just kept it and all the PC7424 backing plates/pads as the motor is slightly more powerful...

[CumminsCrazed]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

im on the fence between a PC7424, Flex 3401 and G110.....and i have a car show to get ready for in 6 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chris-sd]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

Love the size of the pc.

[ceyko]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

I am a bang for the buck kind of person and feel that the G110 provides that. However, I can see the value of the Flex and who does not like PC? Still, I like what I hear about the Flex - just not enough to justify the cost.

[Bounty]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

I am a bang for the buck kind of person and feel that the G110 provides that. However, I can see the value of the Flex and who does not like PC? Still, I like what I hear about the Flex - just not enough to justify the cost.

I hear this argument a lot and I wonder what people mean by "bang for the buck" in this case?

I've always understood it to mean the best value for your money. A random orbital like a PC7424 or G110/G220 will run you $150 for machine only while a true dual-action like a Flex will cost $270. That's a one time difference of $120 more or less.

And what does that $120 give you? Well, for a PC to get 75% of the correction a Flex can, you need smaller pads such as 5.5" or 4" pads. That's more money. To use those pads you need different backing plates. Again, more money. And you need to use the Kevin Brown Method which primes the pad with more product. Using more product equals more money.

In addition, time is money too, right? How do you put a value on the huge difference in time and effort saved correcting defects with a Flex over a random orbital? Meguiar's only recommends using their product on speed setting 5 (making it less powerful than a PC7424 on 6) and that is nothing compared to the Flex's 9,000+ orbits per minute plus 450+ rpm's. If you need to go over an area 3 or 4 times with an orbital and then follow it up with other passes of different products versus one or two with a Flex what monetary value does 8 or 10 hours or more of your time cost?

There's many arguments against a Flex for beginners or enthusiasts (not many of which I agree with) but cost is probably the least viable if you really look at it.

Just my opinion. What the heck do I know....

[ceyko]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

I hear this argument a lot and I wonder what people mean by "bang for the buck" in this case?

I've always understood it to mean the best value for your money. A random orbital like a PC7424 or G110/G220 will run you $150 for machine only while a true dual-action like a Flex will cost $270. That's a one time difference of $120 more or less.

So, I paid 169 for..

1 G110 (w/case back plate etc)
1 Yellow pad (Meg)
1 Black pad (Meg)
Some M205
Some towels
a duffel
maybe 1 or two other things.

A similar kit at ADS was 299, 130 difference. Regardless, percentage wise it is much larger and I think "only 120" dollars is a matter of perspective.

I orginally was a PC fan, but what I liked about the G110 over the PC was..

-I have other PC products and getting support/CS on them after the fact is tough. I hear good things about Megs CS.
-Little bit more power
-Came with case
-Overall better looking IMO. (not that it matters)
-Talked about nicely by a local detailer who posts on here too, but dunno if he wants his name thrown around. Great guy though.

So anyway, I was looking at around double the price for a Flex. Especially being a rookie I did not think the Flex was the right tool. To be honest I took around 8 hours with the tool (G110) on my DSG '03 Mustang GT and am floored by the results, so I think it was the right decision for -me.-

Now what would make the Flex a better bang for the buck for me?

-If I was unable to accomplish what I consider to be top notch results with the G110. (On my Mustang, I'm not sure how it would get much better shine wise. Now I may regret it for correcting a couple of blemishes)
-If I did not enjoy working on my car for hours. (i.e. needed it done faster or was a professional)
-If I had more then the 4 cars I have.

Now understand, I'm not trying to argue in a manner to be a -word was sensored-...bunghole. Just stating my opinion/perspective on the matter. Your points are VERY valid, but here is my perspective.

1. All that stuff becomes part of the collection of "stuff" I have. Although priming with product does spin me up a little.
2. Well, as you touched on I was concerned about damaging my cars being a rookie and all. *I* personally will use what a tool has and I have a habit of experimenting/getting over confident at the wrong times.

Now you just got me spun up over something. Why the heck would you make a speed "6" setting and not recommend it be used? Or otherwise insinuate that it is a bad idea. Need to look that one up, thanks for mentioning it.

[Bounty]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

So, I paid 169 for..

1 G110 (w/case back plate etc)
1 Yellow pad (Meg)
1 Black pad (Meg)
Some M205
Some towels
a duffel
maybe 1 or two other things.

Definitely a nice deal...I paid $309 for:

1. Flex 3401 Dual Action Polisher
2. Six (6) LC CCS pads (4 more than your G110 kit)
3. Flex carrying bag
4. Some microfiber towels
5. Free Meguiar's duffel

The four extra pads at $10 to $12 each is almost $50 of the difference right there. The Flex carrying bag is $40 normally so how much of a difference is it really?

Regardless, percentage wise it is much larger and I think "only 120" dollars is a matter of perspective.

It definitely is and I agree with you there. If $120 either makes you or breaks you then detailing in general is not the best of hobbies. It is expensive, consumptive (need to replenish products), and an error can cost you thousands (damaging painted surfaces). Unlike softball or golf or tennis, detailing is ultimately much more dependent on the tools used. I can give Tiger Woods any garbage set of clubs or Venus Williams any cheap tennis racket and I'll never beat them.

Put me and an expert (Todd, Mike P, Kevin Brown, et al) side-by-side on a panel and give them just a foam applicator and me a Flex or Rotary and it is impossible for them to acheive the same results in the same amount of time with the same level of finsihing appearance. Products and tools in this business do make a hug difference in time and performance.

I orginally was a PC fan, but what I liked about the G110 over the PC was..

1. I have other PC products and getting support/CS on them after the fact is tough. I hear good things about Megs CS.
2. Little bit more power
3. Came with case
4. Overall better looking IMO. (not that it matters)
5. Talked about nicely by a local detailer who posts on here too, but dunno if he wants his name thrown around. Great guy though.

1. As the PC's are the most widely used (numbers wise) there is a myriad of forum support here, on Autogeek, on Autopia, etc. Not to mention they are almost bullet-proof and have nowhere near the issues as some other machines. I can't speak to Porter Cable direct customer support because in the 2 years I've owned mine I have never had to use them. Maybe I should send them a thank you card...

2. How so? The G110 is only recommended to be used on speed setting 5...that makes it less powerful than speed setting 6 on a PC which has no such limitations. Why? Because there are issues with some of the Meg's pads/backing plates coming apart on speed 6 with high pressure...hence the official recommendation of setting 5.

3. PC fits just fine in that free Meg's duffel from Rick...

4. Can't argue there...the yellow and black color scheme look nice.

5. You can find someone to speak highly about just about anything...me being a prime example!

So anyway, I was looking at around double the price for a Flex. Especially being a rookie I did not think the Flex was the right tool. To be honest I took around 8 hours with the tool (G110) on my DSG '03 Mustang GT and am floored by the results, so I think it was the right decision for -me.-

And definitely if the things you mentioned above (color scheme, free bag, etc) are the most important than it sure was. If you could have done the same or better results in 4 or 5 hours on that car multiplied by your four cars...what price is 20+ hours of your labor worth? Even at minimum wage that's over $140 or more than the difference between the machines. And you admit there are defects you were unable to remove with your machine. How much is it worth to get those type of defects out on all four of your cars?

Now understand, I'm not trying to argue in a manner to be a -word was sensored-...bunghole. Just stating my opinion/perspective on the matter. Your points are VERY valid, but here is my perspective.

1. All that stuff becomes part of the collection of "stuff" I have. Although priming with product does spin me up a little.
2. Well, as you touched on I was concerned about damaging my cars being a rookie and all. *I* personally will use what a tool has and I have a habit of experimenting/getting over confident at the wrong times.

I totally understand and as I've said before it's important for people to both ask questions and asert different opinions so we can all discuss the issues and hopefully learn something. The Flex is just a better machine flat out. It's a Mercedes compared to a Honda. As I stated, I have both machines and like to use both on most details because of the years of use with the PC and the comfort level I have with it. I just don't see $120 or so to be worth me wasting hours of time on every car I do and getting 80% of the results...whether it be on 4 or 400.

Now you just got me spun up over something. Why the heck would you make a speed "6" setting and not recommend it be used? Or otherwise insinuate that it is a bad idea. Need to look that one up, thanks for mentioning it.

Explained above...

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

Now you just got me spun up over something. Why the heck would you make a speed "6" setting and not recommend it be used? Or otherwise insinuate that it is a bad idea. Need to look that one up, thanks for mentioning it.

Might be able to help you with that one. According to Mike Phillips (I think it was Mike Phillips...) speed setting 6 was added with an eye to the future, and future product advances. If Meguiars designs a compound, polish, or pad that works optimally with an OPM faster than 5000, guess what? You won't have to go out and buy a whole new DA because you already have that extra gear in your G110. Innovative forward thinking, and a good reason why Meguiars was in on the design process when the G110 was developed to take the place of the G100

[Bounty]

Re: Flex VRG-3401 - Initial Impressions

If Meguiars designs a compound, polish, or pad that works optimally with an OPM faster than 5000, guess what? You won't have to go out and buy a whole new DA because you already have that extra gear in your G110. Innovative forward thinking, and a good reason why Meguiars was in on the design process when the G110 was developed to take the place of the G100

The problem with that is the polishes and compounds they sell (like M105 and M205) are approved and designed for faster than 5550 opm's because they are also dual-action and rotary approved. The issue is the pads and/or backing plates were coming apart over speed setting 5 with high pressure so they had to back off the speed recommendation and stick with 5...which makes the whole "G110 is more powerful" argument completely moot and worthless.

So this line should really read "If Meguiar's ever makes pads that can withstand speed setting 6...or you go out and buy Lake Country or Sonus or Edge or Flex pads that can...you won't have to go out and buy a whole new orbital polisher."