Micromarring with M205 and DA

[dnoraker]

I'm in the middle of a detail for a customer and so if I could get some suggestions this evening, I would really appreciate it. It has to be done Sunday the 3rd in the afternoon.

I've been using the DA for a few years and have found very few paints where I don't get some degree of micromarring with any pad or product. The best I could find was the old DA-approved Scratch-X and a finishing pad and that got darned close to rotary-quality reflections and gloss.

I've detailed three cars with the DA/finishing pad and M205 as the last step before wax and they turned out great, but they weren't black. I didn't see any micro-marring on any of them.

I'm now doing a late '90s black Suburban and even with 4-5 overlapping passes in about a 12x16 area I'm still getting a little cloudiness and micro-marring. I start with heavier pressure and gradually lighten up, and start with speed 3 and bump it to 1 for the last pass.

If I use the rotary/finishing pad and use a similar technique with the M205, I get darned close to hologram-free results and it's darker and more clear. My plan is to continue along this path, hoping the NXT will satisfactorily fill the holograms, but I would love to know if there's something I can try that would improve my DA results. I also tried Scratch-X with the DA and it still was "cloudier" than the rotary and M205.

[Carfire]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

Maybe you should try a more aggressive compound, before you apply 205, and then apply 205.
I have never had this problem before.
Maybe you are not working it enough.

[3Fitty]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

Are you priming the pad? If so, are you using the KBM?

[WhiskeyRock-a-roller]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

I think 3/1 Is too low of speed. 4.5-5 is usually reccomended. This is probably why when you switch to rotary it finishes out fine...

[Bunky]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

I used 205 today for the first time. It worked nicely with the soft buff finishing pad on speed 5 on my DA UDM (original model) on black. It was pretty consistent (work time, finishing state) and not overly picky about frequent pad cleaning.

I did try some 5-in LC black pads and it seem to break down too soon. I had the same experience with 105 and 5-in LC pads. Otherwise it would dry out quickly and marr (lots of fine scratches) the surface. You need to use a bit more polish or fewer passes when using small pads.

[dnoraker]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

I did the test in an area where I had already compounded with M105 and the so1o light wool pad.

I think on the other cars where I finished with the DA and M205 that I used more like speed 4, then slowed it down for the last pass. I don't see how it would cause more marring to have a slower speed since the product doesn't have to break down. Should the speed be slower, like the 3-4 range with a finishing pad?

Should I bother to slow it down? I guess I was working from heavier pressure to light pressure, and from greater speed to lesser speed.

Yes, I primed the pad using the KBM. I didn't think that mattered as much with the DA and finishing pad.

I'll have to dig through some posts on technique with M205 and finishing pad to clear rotary holograms.

[WhiskeyRock-a-roller]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

I did the test in an area where I had already compounded with M105 and the so1o light wool pad.

I think on the other cars where I finished with the DA and M205 that I used more like speed 4, then slowed it down for the last pass. I don't see how it would cause more marring to have a slower speed since the product doesn't have to break down. Should the speed be slower, like the 3-4 range with a finishing pad?

Should I bother to slow it down? I guess I was working from heavier pressure to light pressure, and from greater speed to lesser speed.

Yes, I primed the pad using the KBM. I didn't think that mattered as much with the DA and finishing pad.

I'll have to dig through some posts on technique with M205 and finishing pad to clear rotary holograms.

3-4 is generally used for application of LSP. Have you tried going 4 or 5? if you're going 3 and then dropping to 1 it may just not be working it enough.

If you get better results with the rotary using the same pad and similar technique then it is obviously the method of application that is the issue... What speed are you using with the rotary?

If it finishes ok witht he rotary why not just go with that?

[akimel]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

Tim Lingor has mentioned that he has discovered that on some paints, when using the SMAT products, he finds he gets better results if he does not lessen up on the pressure. Perhaps Tim might be persuaded to elaborate further on this.

[dnoraker]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

My plan for now is to just finish this gig with the rotary and M205 on the finishing pad. The holograms were slight enough that the wax will mask it, plus the finish has more clarity anyway. I tend to prefer the slight holograms and a wetter, crisper finish than no holograms and micro-marred/milky look.

To get it nearly hologram-free, I start on about 900 RPM for the first two passes, drop it a couple clicks for the next, then finish with 600 RPM and just enough pressure to contact the paint. I don't know if this is the best way to do it, but it seems to be working about as well as it could from past experience trying to avoid holograms.

I used to have a '97 S-10, so withing a year or two of this truck I'm working on, and I remember it being fussy with the DA. The only thing that ever looked good on that thing was rotary w/M80 and a yellow polishing pad! If there were holograms, I never found them. And that was the first thing I ever buffed with the rotary. I tried every pad and product Meguiars had with the DA and it always had micro-marring. I hadn't tried Scratch-X with that truck, but that worked with my Altima, which also micro-marrs with any product.

Thanks for the tips. I will try some things on my next detail (hopefully my own car finally!) This Suburban has over 100k on it and has been butchered by the previous owner running it through cloth washes, so I'm not getting all the scratches out anyway without buffing down to the base coat!

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

The vast, vast majority of paints should allow truly hologram free finishing on the rotary with the finishing pad and M205. The key in my experience is not to work the polish too long- it is easy to work it excessively because the lubricating oils last along time and it doesn't haze, but I found that the last few passes if I really push it to the limits before it dries can cause holograms.

I hologrammed a black Mercedes up in a test spot by doing that. Made a second pass with a shorter work time and it removed the holograms and left a flawless finish. It also worked without holograms for the rest of the vehicle.

[dnoraker]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

I've been wondering if people have had better results with finishing with a rotary with M205. I suspected that could be the case, and I think on this black Suburban I'm seeing better results than what I've gotten with M80 or even M82. I tried M82 in my test spots with the rotary and it the black wasn't quite as dark as the M205. I may not have had the pad primed well enough...who knows.

I will try maybe 3 passes with declining speed on the rotary and see how she goes. With the vast expanses of paint I have to polish, less work is a good thing!

[WhiskeyRock-a-roller]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

Here's another thought....

Do you have an older version of 205?... I could be wrong (I know its the case with 105)... But the original version was intended for use with a rotary only?

Then the newer version came out and was DA approved?

What does it say on your bottle? could this be the issue?

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

Here's another thought....

Do you have an older version of 205?... I could be wrong (I know its the case with 105)... But the original version was intended for use with a rotary only?

Then the newer version came out and was DA approved?

What does it say on your bottle? could this be the issue?

M205 only has 1 version, which is DA and rotary approved.

[WhiskeyRock-a-roller]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

M205 only has 1 version, which is DA and rotary approved.

Well nevermind then!

[dnoraker]

Re: Micromarring with M205 and DA

I went back and read Tim Lingor's review of M205 again, which I read before doing any work with M205, and this time noticed that he mentioned that he used speed 5 with a fair amount of pressure. I will try a test spot. I have to deliver by 6pm today, so I've got a little time.