Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

[Jam]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking here for a few weeks now and finally got the time to try out a DA for the first time. I got the G110 along with some Soft Pad 2.0s as well as Mike's DVD on How to Use a PC and ordered the new M205 as soon as it came out. On to the pics and the questions.... Working on a 95 volvo, never been detailed, has never met a microfiber towel before until 2 weeks ago. These pics are after a Dawn wash, clay, and Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner wipe. Befores





After 2 applications of M205, using setting of 5, 3 heavier passes and 2 lighter passes.



50/50



I think I did alright, at least I didn't make any huge mistakes

Some questions -

This car had some major swirling, RDS, water etching, etc. I didn't expect the DA/M205/Polishing Pad to take everything out, even with multiple applications. I'm planning on experimenting with the new M105 when it comes out, but in the meantime, do you think using a more aggressive pad (I have smaller CCS pads) will work?

Also, I've read about dry buffing, but never seen a picture of it. I start seeing white specks come off the pad during the 3-4 pass. Is this dry buffing and does that mean that I'm either going too slow or my working area it too larger? Each area is about 2' x 2'.



Last question, is the G110 suppose to vibrate that much? At speed 5, it's tolerable but did shake off my wedding band when I cleaned the pad with a terry cloth. At speed 3, it's like trying to ride a buckling bronco.

Thanks everyone for your advice, can't wait to get back to work on the rest of the car!

[chessplayer]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

i have not use the M205 product yet...As for my PC7424 the vibration is not to bad and certainly on speed #3 does not do buckling bronco ...you have the pad centered? hope this helps

[chessplayer]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

i am a newbie on the PC myself just bought 1 about 3 weeks ago ...

[Justin Murphy]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

I will vibrate. I'm used to it so I bet it seems like a lot to you. Plus, 7" pass have a lot of rotating (oscillating) mass as well. Pics looks good so I think everything is going right.

How big of an area did you work in and how fast were you moving the machine?

Thanks for including pictures with your questions!

[TimG]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

Just curious, is the treated side on the 50/50 showing micro marring?

[Tom Weed]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

I will offer some suggestions as for the dusting you are seeing, make you sure clean your pad often, if you have build up on your pad, this can be the result. One other thing, I am not familiar with 205 yet, but have read a little goes a long way, so maybe try using a little less product.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

Hi I think I did alright, at least I didn't make any huge mistakes

Looks good so far, paint would better without the 50/50 Isopropyl Alcohol wipe down. Once you're confident that you have the technique down and the products and pads you're using are working for your goals stop with the chemical stripping of the paint and move on to the next step.

This car had some major swirling, RDS, water etching, etc. I didn't expect the DA/M205/Polishing Pad to take everything out, even with multiple applications.

RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

RIDS are a lot more complicated to remove than just buffing using a DA Polisher. The reason for this is because the DA Polisher is going to try to remove ALL the paint where the pad is and because RIDS by definition are deeper that means you need to remove a lot of paint and DA Polishers are not effective at doing this quickly. Rotary Buffers are a lot more effective at removing RIDS so is Feathersanding followed by using a rotary buffer to remove you sanding marks.

If this is a daily driver in most cases most people are better off removing all the light scratches and living with the RIDS because removing more and more clear means removing more and more of the UV protection in the clear to protect the basecoat.

Plus as a daily driver it's likely you'll just get more in the future. We try to caution people about trying to create a 100% scratch-free finish on a daily driver.

I'm planning on experimenting with the new M105 when it comes out, but in the meantime, do you think using a more aggressive pad (I have smaller CCS pads) will work?

Do a test spot with the more aggressive pads before going over the entire car and make sure you like the results you're getting. More aggressive pads on DA style polishers tend to haze the paint. The same pad on a rotary doesn't do this so it has to do with the oscillating Acton of the tool.

If it does haze the paint you can switch back to a pad that doesn't haze the paint or you can dial-in a second polishing step where you switch to a less aggressive pad or pad/product combo an re-polish the rest of the car to remove the haze your first step instills.

Just do a test spot first to see what you pad is doing and go from there. Make sure you can make a small area look good before going over the entire car.

Also do a search using CCS

Advanced Search

and do a little reading on what others have said about these pads.

Also, I've read about dry buffing, but never seen a picture of it. I start seeing white specks come off the pad during the 3-4 pass. Is this dry buffing and does that mean that I'm either going too slow or my working area it too larger? Each area is about 2' x 2'.

Clean you pad often, especially the edges where product will tend to build up. For edges use a nylon brush like a toothbrush and simply hold the pad by itself or while on the machine and brush the build-up residue off the edge. (machine is off when you're doing this).

Don't buff to a dry buff, this means you should always see a wet film on the surface while buffing. Doesn't have to be a sloppy wet film just has to be a film that's not dry. Make sense?

Last question, is the G110 suppose to vibrate that much? At speed 5, it's tolerable but did shake off my wedding band when I cleaned the pad with a terry cloth. At speed 3, it's like trying to ride a buckling bronco.

It will vibrate horribly when you're holding it in the air and nothing is against it like a terry cloth towel to clean it.

You should only turn the machine on when the face of the pad is against something.

Any vibration you feel when the tool is on and the face of the pad is against something with some level of pressure then that is normal.

The tool does oscillate the pad and this is the source and reason for the vibration, it's also part of the reason the tool is so popular because it's NOT a direct drive rotary, it's a oscillating tool with a clutch for safe buffing.

Hope this helps...

[Jam]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and detailed responses. I actually did the whole car yesterday. I was concerned about the possible dry buffing, but the results were nice so I just kept going. I ended up just not doing the "spread polisher out using speed 3" since it was harder to control for me; I just did a quick once over using speed 5 before getting down to work.

I'm still not sure about little specks of residue I'm seeing. You mean that's not normal? I see it all over the car, windows. The pad is moist (if I push gently on the pad I can see and feel the M205 on my finger) and there is some polish to wipe off after I'm done with a section (looks like wax). I do try to clean the pad by running it while holding a terry cloth against it, but it doesn't do a whole lot it seems.

Thanks.

[Jam]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

I will vibrate. I'm used to it so I bet it seems like a lot to you. Plus, 7" pass have a lot of rotating (oscillating) mass as well. Pics looks good so I think everything is going right.

How big of an area did you work in and how fast were you moving the machine?

Thanks for including pictures with your questions!

I tried to limit to 2x2' areas, going pretty slow. I watched Mike's DVD so I had an idea of what the correct pace should be. First 3 heavier correction passes were slow, then the last 2 lighter ones were a bit faster.

[Jam]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

Just curious, is the treated side on the 50/50 showing micro marring?

I don't know what micro marring looks like. The process did remove about 90% defects and the remaining are deeper scratches or other paint defects. If you want, I'll take more photos but it'll help if I know what I'm looking for.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

I'm still not sure about little specks of residue I'm seeing. You mean that's not normal?

The little specks or dots of product are splatter and it's normal to some degree. The goal is to have as little splatter as possible and most splatter is user related, so the better you get at working your product and keeping it under the pad instead of flying out onto adjacent panels and components the less splatter you'll have to clean up.

This is in part one reason some people will tape-off and cover areas before machine cleaning and polishing.

I don't know what micro marring looks like. The process did remove about 90% defects and the remaining are deeper scratches or other paint defects. If you want, I'll take more photos but it'll help if I know what I'm looking for.

RIDS are RIDS, that is they are as you describe and usually after you machine clean and polish paint and thus remove all the light swirls and scratches, the deeper ones left over, the RIDS will stand out like a sore thumb. This is not micro-marring.

If you look at the section of paint in the upper right hand corner in the below pictures and notice how it's hazy and dull as compared to the lower portion and the section to the left, this upper right section was buffed using a cutting pad on a DA Polisher and it left micro-marring in the paint.

Note the dull, hazy look is nothing like RIDS.


From the Hot Topics forum group.
(So much information on so many popular topics in the Hot Topics forum group)

Cutting Pads with the PC - Is this a good idea?

I had LC pads before and I really didn't like them as much as the W-8006 and W-9006 Meguiar's pads.

Also, I had the orange pad and as I learned from a Meguiar's Detail Day, the pad is much to abrasive to be used on my paint.

Below is my Mustang hood where I used an orange pad on the top right side, and the results from using less abrasive products and and less aggressive polishing pad to the lower/bottom section. The upper left hand section is how my paint started out.

Two shots of the hood on Brad's black Mustang







Hazing, Micro-marring, Tick Marks are words to describe the very tiny scratches that can be instilled by a DA Polisher on some paints with some pads and some chemicals.

It doesn't happen to all paints as paints are different and some are more polishable than others.

It doesn't happen with all pads and all products, that's why you want to do a TEST SPOT to a small section first before going over the entire car.

Make sure the pads, products, and process of your choice will work to make the paint look good before going over the entire car only to find out the pads, products and process of your choice make the paint look bad.

It's the difference between doing cartwheels across the front lawn and posting questions to a forum asking how to remove micro-marring.

[mb911]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

The Volvo paint looks great now.

Fantastic results. Well done!

I can't wait to get started with my G110 as well.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Dangerous Newbie with G110 and new M205

Excellent results on the Volvo. The paint looks much improved. Way to go.