OK, so what's my next step?

[sndguy]

My main question is this: Do I need to continue more passes with the products I am using or do I need to switch to a more agressive setup with a rotary or perhaps a different product like 151? Now that you know the question, here is the lead up:

I recently bought a G110, pads, product, and instructional DVD from ADS. I watched the DVD several times, made notes, organized my materials and got ready to do a test spot.

My car is an 07 Hyndai with dark blue paint. The finish isn't in real bad shape but it could be better. It has the typical cobwebbing and some deeper scratches as illustrated by this before photo:

Before:


I got re/dy to do the test spot. Here was my process:

-Wash with GC
-Clay
-M83 w/8006 pad (3 passes)
-M80 w/8006
-NXT 2.0

I was very careful to use proper DA speed, arm speed, and pressure (yes, I had a scale nearby) as I did this so I feel confident my application is pretty close to nominal. I also want to say that I didn't start out intending to do 3 passes of M83 but one pass didn't take care of everything. Each pass yielded a better result but I stopped at 3 passes thinking that a different product or setup may give me the result I want with less time/product spent. The "after" photo below shows the improvement but it isn't perfect. Some larger scratches remain. This leads me to the question at the top of this post. How can I get the finish to where I want it to be? Is the answer more passes, more/different product, or a different/stronger tool for application?

After:
Thanks!

[Daniel Kinder]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

Hey sndguy

Looks alright put with that small of a picture really can't tell much, how about inlarging pictures more so people can see what your showing and talking about.

What type clay did you use?

You used about 15 lbs. pressure with the #83/W8006 pad and 3 passes, and wasn't happy with your results.

If 3 passes with #83 didn't do it then move on to #84 and try that, then of course go down to 1 pass of #83 and then #80 and try that?

Just keep working on the technique you can and will get the results you want!

[asim_296]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

remember those 3 points:

1- you'll have to live with some deeper scratches. since you don't want to remove so much paint.

2- get a paint thinkness gauge.

[Derrick]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

Well i cant really see the picture to well but just remember that when you remove a scratch you are actually removing the paint. Leveling the paint to the bottom of that scratch. So if it is just a daily driver you may just want to live with some of the deeper scratches. Like i tell my customers, on the deeper scratches some may come out but at a price. What i mean by that is you will now have real thin clear coat in that area and it will be susceptible to clear coat failure. So if you got all the swirls and cob webbing out then it should look pretty good. If there are still some light swirls you are trying to get out then i would just recommend #80 again but since you already waxed it i would just say wait till next time in a few months when its time to clay and wax again.

[sndguy]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

Sorry for the small pictures! I am working on that. Perhaps then you can see why I am asking the questions I am asking. It just seems like more scratches should be gone. I am OK with some of the larger/deeper scratches remaining but the smaller ones, I thought would be completely removable. Please check back in a little while, I should have some larger pics up.

As for what clay I used. It was the Meguiars clay kit that you can get at most car places.

Thanks!

[sndguy]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

OK, here are some larger pics:

Hood-Up close Before:


Hood-Up Close-AFTER:


Before- Far Away:


Far Away- After:

[Michael Stoops]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

It appears that you've made some great improvements here in what sounds like your first attempt with the G110 - kudos on that!

Give this a shot, using M80 on a W8006 polishing pad and the G110 set to speed 5: Apply enough downward pressure to stop the pad from spinning, then ease up enough to allow rotation again. Put some hash marks on the back of the pad/backing plate if that helps you determine rotation. With that amount of pressure, and keeping the pad flat, work the M80 in the typical small area (no larger than 2' x 2') and let it break down fully. Within that area move the machine side to side, up and down, side to side and then up and down again, always overlapping your passes by 50%. Take it very, very slow. M80 should go fully translucent and appear very thin, but certainly not dry. Inspect that area very closely and see if you've knocked down all the swirls marks.

Sometimes you need to add that extra bit of pressure and slow your arm speed down a little more.

[sndguy]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

Michael,

Thanks for the advice. I have to say though that I thought I had done it all correctly.

I did indeed already do hash marks on the pad (along with marking what product I use on that pad). The overlapping, slow arm speed, etc. I did my best to copy what Mike Phillips did in the DVD. As for how much I allowed the pad to turn... the hash marks would indicate that the pad is moving around at about an inch per second. Should I give more pressure than that?

I am fine with doing multiple passes to get the job done, if that is the best answer. Although I am worried about thinning the clearcoat too much. I just wondered if perhaps a more agressive product or application would yield better results with fewer passes.

I guess I might be splitting hairs at this point, I don't know.

[yalerd]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

That's a great improvement indeed.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

The M80 is a wetter product than the M83 and will allow the foam pad to rotate better and it's when the pad is rotating over the paint that it's removing paint.

Usually, after buffing a section what happens is you remove all the shallow swirls and scratches the deeper scratches will stand out like a sore thumb.

We call these R.I.D.S

Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

If multiple applications of M83 and M80 are removing the shallow scratches but not the RIDS then usually this is a sign that if you want to remove the RIDS you're going to want to switch to a rotary buffer or learn to live with the deeper defects.

Keep in mind if this is daily driver that the UV protection for the color coat is in the clear layer of paint and the more you remove the less you have to protect the color coat over the service life of the car.

[RaskyR1]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

How long were you working a section? I now when I first started using my PC I wasn't working it long enough.

[sndguy]

Re: OK, so what's my next step?

I have to admit that I haven't actually kept track of the time per pass. I would estimate about a minute or less. When I would do each pass I would try to work the product until it was almost clear. This would allow me enough time to work a 2' x 2' area in 3 directions, overlapping 50% each time. I found that the #83 would almost seem to be dry but not quite. It would be slightly harder to wipe off, sometimes having small particulates. The #80, having more oils, was never a problem to wipe clean.

In the photo example I posted earlier labeled "Hood Up Close after", I seem to still have some scratches even after 3 passes with 83 followed by 80. I am wondering if they are RDS or micro marring. The reason I wonder that is based on the picture on page 47 of this DA guide:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859

The photo looks a lot like what I have going on and the author states that it is due to not working the 83 long enough. Could this be my problem? Should I work a smaller area?

In any case, I have ordered the Harbor Freight thickness gauge so that I can at least get a reference as to how much clear coat I have removed in this test spot as opposed to the rest of the car. Hopefully, I haven't removed too much and it'll help me see if I am at the point where it is as good as it is going to get or if I can experiment a little further.