first time with G220\G110

[dotnetdave]

First time with the new G220


Well Santa and the wife got together and got me the G220 Kit from CYC for Christmas as well as some tape.

I have now gone over with #83 the roof, bonnet, boot, all passenger side and just drivers side to do now. Then its all over against with #80, then #7 and finally NXT Wax.

I have been working in 2ft square section and doing around 10 passes per set on speed 4 with enough pressure to try and get 1 rev per min, and then 3 or 4 at speed 5 with no pressure to cover.

I have managed to remove all the swirl marks so far but i can still see cat claw marks in the clear coat on the bonnet and cant shift them. I have been using a W-8006 megs pad and cleaning after every 2 sets to keep it dry.

Anyone got any suggestions for me or things i could improve.

thanks, Dave

[VonLego]

Re: first time with G220\G110

I'm hoping to be in your position this coming spring, I'd love to see any pictures you have to offer.

Due to limited knowledge I'd rather not give advice, but I will throw out information that I've heard on tough scratches.

Often times tough scratches are all the way through not only the clearcoat, but the base paint as well. In these situations no amount of buffing will ever take scratches out. Remember that buffing a scratch the goal is to bring down the surface to the level of the scratch, thus evening out the surface so no "scratch" is present. Taking this into account in relation to a deep scratch would mean that in order to level the paint off again you would be hitting metal.

Remember also that a g220 is designed for light to medium duty work, and couldn't burn through the paint if you tried. Tough scratches like that may look better if you can smooth off the edges of the scratches to prevent hard reflections, but won't ever be fully fixed with out some form of touch up paint--- which from what I understand is a new world of difficult.

Throw up some pictures of the claw marks, a lot of the folks around here really know whats up and can help you out.

PS: Where did you get a g220 already? I've been dieing to get my hands on a g110!

[dotnetdave]

Re: first time with G220\G110

i am in the UK and the G220 was release around 2 weeks ago

the scratches arent deep as you cant feel them with yoru finger nail, no primer showing

[VonLego]

Re: first time with G220\G110

Make sure to really work the 83 in with a clean pad. If you can't feel them with your finger nail I'd assume that the defect should come out.

[dotnetdave]

Re: first time with G220\G110

Make sure to really work the 83 in with a clean pad. If you can't feel them with your finger nail I'd assume that the defect should come out.

yeh i think i have but still there, since i have only had the machine less than a week i need more practice and hands on advice. Will be going to the Megs UK HQ next month for a days instruction and playing in their detailing bay so think i might leave them until then

[Mike Phillips]

Re: first time with G220\G110

I have been working in 2ft square section and doing around 10 passes per set on speed 4 with enough pressure to try and get 1 rev per min, and then 3 or 4 at speed 5 with no pressure to cover.

I have managed to remove all the swirl marks so far but i can still see cat claw marks in the clear coat on the bonnet and cant shift them.

I have been using a w8006 megs pad and cleaning after every 2 sets to keep it dry. Anyone got any suggestions for me or things i could improve.

thanks, dave

If all you have left are the deeper cat claw scratches then you might want to stop at this point and learn to live with these deeper scratches. Here at Meguiar's we always say,

"You can't always remove the deeper scratches but you can often times improve them to the point where they are much less noticeable, or at least to the point where you can live with them.

Remember, if you continue to try to remove the deeper scratches you will continue to remove your precious layer of clear coat paint and it's this clear coat layer that protects the color coat underneath.

Working a 2' section is okay if you find the swirls and scratches coming out at an acceptable speed, but anytime you find the paint to be harder and you're finding it difficult to remove swirls and scratches, then shrink the size of your work area down.

Also, when removing swirls and scratches, you want to use the polisher on the 5.0 speed setting for more power to keep the foam pad rotating on the surface, this is when the tool will be most effective at removing small particles of paint and that's how your remove swirls and scratches.

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything...



The harder the paint and/or the deeper the defects you're trying to remove, the smaller the area you want to work at one time"

Here's a "Tips Article" we wrote that everyone that purchases a DA Polisher like our new G110 and for outside the United States, the G220


Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher
(These are all similar tools)

After teaching hundreds of classes here at Meguiar's, there are some common mistakes most people make when trying to remove swirls and scratches with a dual action polisher. Most of them have to do with technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time
2. Move the polisher too fast over the surface
3. Too low of speed setting for removing swirls
4. Too little pressure on the head of the unit
5. Too much pressure on the head of the unit so the pad quits rotating
6. Not keeping the pad flat while working your product
7. Too much product, too little product
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough

Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Shrink your work area down, the harder the paint the smaller the area you can work. The average area should be and average of about 16" by 16" up to 20" by 20" or so. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot.
2. For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's really easy to move the polisher too quickly because the sound of the motor spinning fast has a psychological effect to for some reason want to make people move the polisher fast. Also the way most people think is that, "If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster", but it doesn't work that way.
3. When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting, again... this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the diminishing abrasives, the foam type, and the pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches. It's a leveling process that's somewhat difficult because the tool is safe/gentle while in most cases, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints and this makes them hard to work on. This is also why people get frustrated, they don't understand paint technology, all they know is their paint swirls easy and getting the swirls out is difficult and thus frustrating.
4. For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much pressure and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Just the opposite of item #4, people think that by pushing harder on the polisher they can work faster and be more aggressive, but the truth is the clutch in the tool is a safety mechanism to prevent burning and will cause the pad to stop rotating, thus less cleaning or abrading action and once in a while this will lead a person to then post on the forum something like this, "Hey my pad doesn't rotate". There needs to be a balance of enough pressure to remove defects and keep the pad rotating but yet not too much pressure as to stop the rotating action. This balance is affected by a lot of things, things like type of chemical, some chemicals provide more lubrication and the pad will spin easier, curved surfaces or any raise in body lines will tend to stop the pad from rotating. This is where experience on how to address these areas comes into play or you do the best you can and move on. It's not a perfect tool, nor a perfect system, but it's almost always better than working/cleaning by hand.
6. Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one side of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease cleaning ability.
7. Too much product over lubricates the surface and this won't allow the diminishing abrasives to do their job plus it will increase the potential for messy splatter as well as cause pad saturation. Too little product will keep the pad from rotating due to no lubrication and there won't be enough diminishing abrasives to do any work. Again it's a balance that comes with experience, or another way of saying this would be it's a balance that comes with hours of buffing out a car to learn what to do and what not to do. Information like what you're reading here is just an edge to decrease your learning curve. Hope this is helping.
8. Most people don't clean their pad often enough and most of the time the reason for this is because they don't know they're supposed to clean their pad often and they don't know how to clean their pad. Again, that's why this forum is here to help you with both of these things. You should clean your pad after every application of product or every other application of product, your choice, most of the time cleaning your pad after every other application of product works pretty well. It enables you to work clean and enables the foam pad, the polisher and the next application of fresh product too all work effectively. How to clean your pad will be addressed below sooner versus later, but not at the time of this posting. (Sorry, I'm behind a keyboard, not a video camera

The first 4 are the most common. Can't tell you how many times we hear a comment like this from someone in the garage after demonstrating the correct technique

"That's what I'm doing wrong"


The dual action polisher is a gentle tool, that's why people like it. People are afraid of machines because they're worried they're going to either instill swirls or burn through the paint. When they learn that this is pretty hard to do with this machine, so after enough research or after watching a demonstration they learn to trust it and try it.

Summary: People like the dual action polisher because it's oscillating action is safe and gentle to the surface.

Now follow me on this...
For the same reason people love the dual action polisher, (it's safe and gentle), a segment of people get frustrated with it because it won't remove all defects all the time. It won't tackle serious or deep defects quickly and easily. It won't always work on really hard paints. So for the same reason people love this tool, they also hate it, they just don't know why. Maybe after reading this post they will understand.


This is the reason this thread is so widely read and you can learn a lot from it if you'll only take the time to read through it.

PC + 83 not "Cutting" it! - The Limits of the Dual Action Polisher


Even the pictures of the paint on the white truck on the first page and the story behind it are powerful and REAL (This writer took them and did the testing with both the G100/PC and the RB).

When the G100/PC with a strong cleaner/polish like M83 and our W-8006 polishing pad doesn't remove the defects to your satisfaction or within an acceptable time limit the answer is not to get more aggressive with a more aggressive pad or chemical or both, the answer is to switch to a more powerful machine like the rotary buffer and or take the car to a Pro who knows how to use a rotary buffer, or learn to live with the defects.

Hope this helps...