Most aggressive product to use with the PC

[piebald]

I want to order my own Dual Action Polisher and also need the products for it. As I am from europe I will of course only order one time.
I have tried many many products here to remove my scratches (all by hand though) and nothing really worked.

So whats the roughest product I can use with it?
I wanted to order #80 and #83, is there anything harder than that? Maybe I dont even need anything else but as I said I only want to order one time. Getting 2-3 products more is a way cheaper than ordering just 1 a few weeks later

Just checked this thread

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2524

and for me it seems M-97, A-30, A-10 seem to sound a bit rougher as a paint cleaner than 80 and 83 or?

[Murr1525]

Well, you are somewhat correct in that one-step products, like paint cleaners, will usualy be better than multi-step products like cleaner/polishes.

However, #80 and #83 are very very good paint cleaners. if anything, you would follow them with a pure polish, rather than use a pure cleaner before. Also, you will want the diminishing abrasives found in the #80/83 in order to remove swirls in your car.

While experienced folks may be able to work with more agressive combinations, #83 and the #8006 pad is the most agressive combination recomnded for average users, and esp new users.

There are limits of course, but #83 will be the best you can do, and certainly something to have in your arsenal.

Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

PC + #83 not "Cutting" it! - The Limits of the Dual Action Polisher

What it Means to Remove a Scratch

Recommended Products - G100a Dual Action Polisher


And of course, once your car is back in top shape:

Suggested Products for Taking Care of a New Car

[Mike Phillips]

Currently, M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish applied with a W-8006 foam polishing pad on the 5.0 speed setting is the most aggressive product we recommend for use with the dual action polisher.

To be quite frank, if the above combination of product don't solve your paint defect issues, it's time to move on to the rotary buffer or it may be a case where the defects cannot be safely removed by any product or process.

It's also a good idea to have some M80 Speed Glaze on hand to re-polish any panel polished using the M83 because some paints will show micro-marring from M83, (Because it's a fairly aggressive cleaner/polish), and M80 will bring the finish to a higher level of quality.

Hope this helps...

[TH0001]

I know at Autopia some of the guys where able to remove deep scrathces and swirls using a PC on 6, with a cutting pad and 3M's rubbing compound.

From what I understand, the more agressive cleaneres (84 and 85) will not break down with a PC, so it you might wanna try something that doesn't need to be broken down. I haven't tried it, this is only what I have heard and seen pictures done.

Here is the link

http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=68824

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001
I know at Autopia some of the guys where able to remove deep scratches and swirls using a PC on 6, with a cutting pad and 3M's rubbing compound.

In the past, when someone hazes or scours their finish using a compound and a cutting pad, the next thing they do is come here to find out how to fix it. While some people have the skills, experience and knowledge to use more aggressive products and get good results, that doesn't mean everyone one does.

From what I understand, the more aggressive cleaners (84 and 85) will not break down with a PC,

That's not correct, a better way of stating it would be the PC, or we call it the G100 so as not to confuse everyone, doesn't have the power to effectively work the diminishing abrasive against the finish to do the job the most effective way. M85 and M84 are formulate for use with a rotary buffer, not a tool that jiggles.

so it you might wanna try something that doesn't need to be broken down.

Be careful when you start recommending products and procedures you have no experience with, you might cause someone to make a mistake that you can't help them fix.

Thinks about what you wrote... if the abrasive don't break down, yet you've just recommend to people reading this to use them on their paint, this means they will instill scratches. They may remove the scratches and swirls the person is hoping to remove, but they will leave their own swirls and scratches in place of the ones they've removed.

Meguiar's and this forum don't recommend using abrasive products that don't break down, so if anyone decides to follow this member's advice, (TH0001's advice), remember to go to him if you run into problems, not Meguiar's.

I haven't tried it, this is only what I have heard and seen pictures done.

Be careful when you start recommending products and procedures you have no experience with, you might cause someone to make a mistake that you can't help them fix.

There's a lot of free advice given on Autopia and places like Autopia, but when mistakes happen, who's accountable? Who takes responsibility?

[RamAirV1]

In most cases, #80 has done the job for me. I haven't taken the G100 to my car in about a year, yet it still got the job done, removing 99% of the swirls and scratches. I have some etch marks from bird droppings on my roof, and I will use the #83 to get those out. Like Mike says, sometimes the #83 will leave micro marring that the #80 will remove.

I almost always start with #80 as it usually is sufficient to remove the defects. Plus you don't have to work it as much as the #83, it seems to break down more quickly. I suspect the rotary is preferable with #83 if, and only if one has experience using one.

Fortunately, I haven't run into any scratches or swirls on my car that require a rotary. And that's a good thing because I have very little experience using a rotary.

I wouldn't even consider using a rubbing compound with the G100!

RamAirV1

[Detalnewb]

And always remember: do a test spot and use the least aggressive product required to do the job!

IMO having both M83 and M80 is a good thing, and that's especially true for you since you order internationally.

[TH0001]

Mike, I think sometimes you need to lighten up. I never suggested the guy use it, but I just gave him an option.

Also, you are trying to nitpick my post, but I stand by what I said. The PC doesn't have the power or strenght (because it osicaltes) to break down the abbrasives in the compound (or as you said work it fully).

I never said Meguiars' recommends the products, and I never said I recommend it (like you said I did). I was only sharing information, and correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that what forums are for?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001


I never said Meguiar's' recommends the products, and I never said I recommend it (like you said I did). I was only sharing information, and correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that what forums are for?

Our forum is for good and accurate information. When someone reads some how-to information on this forum we want to make sure that when they go out into their garage they are successful and get great results.

We don't want them to come back to the forum and complain that the information they learned on our forum caused them to haze or scour their car's finish.

Often time in the past, people have gotten bad information on other forums and then they come here to find out how to correct the problem.

So, yes forums are for sharing information, but we like to make sure any information going out on this forum is going to help people, not hurt their car's finish.

Besides that, if someone reading this thread, and then clicking over to Autopia and reading the thread you included take the advice of using a compound or cleaner in which the abrasives don't break down, chances are very good I or someone else on this forum is going to be held accountable to help see them fix the damage.

So it's in our best interest not to let just any information go unchecked on this forum and as I've posted many times, at this time Meguiar's doesn't recommend using compounds or cutting pads with dual action polishers on automotive finishes.

Anyone that wants to make those kinds of recommendation can post it on their own forum, or on places like Autopia where you're pretty much on your own is you put into practice out in the garage what you read over there and then have problems.

How's that?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001

Also, you are trying to nitpick my post, but I stand by what I said. The PC doesn't have the power or strength (because it oscillates) to break down the abrasives in the compound (or as you said work it fully).

It's more than just breaking down the diminishing abrasives, it's also forcing them to take little bites out of the paint as the way you remove below surface defects is to remove a little paint.

So I think we're saying the same thing, just a little differently.

The other thing to remember is not everyone has the same skill level as someone posting how-to information on the various forums. We see this all the time when someone comes onto the forum asking how to wet-sand their cars paint with the intention of removing it with a dual action polisher.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001
Mike, I think sometimes you need to lighten up. I never suggested the guy use it, but I just gave him an option.

I invest a lot of time into helping people get the best results from their time, money and efforts, in fact if you look back at your posting history on this forum I've chimed in on plenty of your questions.

Our goal on this forum is to help people get great results while also helping them to avoid making mistakes. Sorry if I came off kind of hard in this one instance, but like I've stated above, we don't want people to leave this forum thinking we endorse using the PC with aggressive compounds and cutting pads.


Peace!

[TH0001]

Mike, you have helped in the past, and I'm not trying to start a [edited for language;2hotford] contest with you. If those are the rules of this forum, I stand corrected. I thought I made it clear that this was just something heard, and that I have never tried it.

I'm not trying to make your job harder, but I didnot recommend anything, I only suggested that there other places to look for advice.

[TH0001]

"Sorry if I came off kind of hard in this one instance,"

You did, sorry if I make your job more difficult

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001
If those are the rules of this forum, I stand corrected.

Well the general rule is we stand behind our information presented on this forum. We don't stand behind and usually don't allow bad information, or information that goes against what we recommend and typically not the information or recommendations made by someone on some other forum that has no accountability on our forum.

I thought I made it clear that this was just something heard, and that I have never tried it.

I understand this, but when information like this is posted, someone has to remove, reply to it, or correct it so other people from around the world when they read it, they know it's not a Meguiar's recommended procedure.

I'm not trying to make your job harder, but I did not recommend anything, I only suggested that there other places to look for advice.

Because you posted it, whether or not your recommended it, it all of a sudden became my responsibility to address.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by TH0001

You did, sorry if I make your job more difficult

I love my job and when you love your job, nothing is difficult. It just takes time to see the thread through to success.