Bub Abraham's Certification Article.

[Scottwax]

Originally posted by Shiny Lil Detlr
A certified exam proctor would have to watch you use a DA and Rotary buffer on a scrap hood to be sure you aren't using bad technique (e.g. leaving buffer trails, etc.)

I can already see the $$$$ flying out of my pocket with how much this certification would have to cost.....

I can drive perfectly when I have a driving examiner next to me but that doesn't mean after I get my license I won't speed.

[buda]

A Case for Certification

To make a point about the need for some type of formal training in our good industry, if not certification. Let me ask how many of you detailers a couple of knowledge questions:

1. What are the different types of leather, by name, and what is the difference. And, why is this important for the detailer to know?

2. How many different types of paint systems are used today?
Explain:
a. Factory assembly line paint system
b. Factory after-assembly line paint system
c. Aftermarket paint system

3. What kind of alcohol will stain what kind of panel plastic?

4. What does an engine degrease have in it that makes it bad to use on carpets or leather for cleaning?

In my opinion this is the kind of knowledge a detailer needs to know whether thru training or certification.

Regards
Bud Abraham

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Re: A Case for Certification

Originally posted by buda
To make a point about the need for some type of formal training in our good industry, if not certification. Let me ask how many of you detailers a couple of knowledge questions:

1. What are the different types of leather, by name, and what is the difference. And, why is this important for the detailer to know?

2. How many different types of paint systems are used today?
Explain:
a. Factory assembly line paint system
b. Factory after-assembly line paint system
c. Aftermarket paint system

3. What kind of alcohol will stain what kind of panel plastic?

4. What does an engine degrease have in it that makes it bad to use on carpets or leather for cleaning?

In my opinion this is the kind of knowledge a detailer needs to know whether thru training or certification.

Regards
Bud Abraham

1) I know of clearcoated (sealed pore), vat dyed, and spray dyed. Main importance being the method of cleaning used. You don't want to eat through the coating on coated leather, and if you scrub spray dyed leather the color could come off completely since the dye isn't all the way through the hyde.

2) Not sure, but I know of single stage, dual-stage BC/CC, tri-stage BC/CC, waterbased, and powdercoat. As far as assembly line paint goes, it is usually ELPO dip followed by spray treatment, base, clear, and cured at 700+ degrees.

3) Denatured alcohol stains HDPE #1

4) Engine degreaser can contain solvents or acid which could stain or disintegrate materials like carpet and leather.

OK now watch me eat crow

[Detail Pro]

detail cert.

I-car has a certification class for detailing, which is a great idea. I think for people who are really serious about there job, would take the class. If you don't want to take the class, are you in the right business, or are you just not that good, and afraid to fail.

[Scottwax]

Re: detail cert.

Originally posted by Detail Pro
I-car has a certification class for detailing, which is a great idea. I think for people who are really serious about there job, would take the class. If you don't want to take the class, are you in the right business, or are you just not that good, and afraid to fail.

I think after nearly 12 years full time, I am pretty serious about this business and I am still not sold on what certification would ultimately accomplish.

[theamcguy]

Lots of good replies here. This always comes up when someone proposes to certification for the auto repair industry. The prevailing attitude is it's fine the way it is lets leave it alone. Most successful professions regulate themselves without govt interference. The Medical and Legal profession both run their own certification procedures and this is after completing med or law school. No government here. Lots of people fail to pass the med boards or the Bar exam once they graduate. They either work as EMTs, paralegals or move on to something else. Your kid is sick two guys both have graduated med school one is certified the other isn't who does your kid see for medical attention? Extreme OK you need wiring work in your house. Better use a licensed electrician or kiss that inspection goodbye not to mention your insurance if the house burns down due to an electrical problem. Same with a plumber. Building contractors also need to be licensed. So why not the auto repair industry? Technicians, mechanics, trans rebuilders, detailers, towers, etc we all need to be certified and we need to take the lead to make it happen. It's not how much will it cost you but how much are you losing because the public views you at less than face value because you don not have proof of knowledge. if we do not take the lead and set up certification procedures, apprentice procedures, and education requirements, then we can not complain when we are underpaid for our work. You see the doctor for 20 min at 4pm after waiting 2 hours for your 2pm appointment he bills you $385. He is billing you for what he knows not what he does. On top of that the medicine he prescribes does not help so he has to do a retest and rediagnose (commonly called a comeback in the auto repair industry which usuall is done for free) and he charges another $385 plus no mention of the wasted $50 on medicine that did not help. You tell me the difference between an doctor and a mechanic? One gets paid big bucks for diagnosing and fixing people the other makes a living diagnosing and fixing cars. The difference is certification. Look at plumbers and electricians they do not have a flat rate book they charge by the hour pure and simple certification is the reason.

[Pete-FWA]

Originally posted by theamcguy
You see the doctor for 20 min at 4pm after waiting 2 hours for your 2pm appointment he bills you $385. He is billing you for what he knows not what he does.

Not true: How much do you also pay the nurse or nurses, receptionist who took your call, the phone nurse who gave you advice and then set up your appointment? Nothing: your office call fees cover the pay those people earn as well as the physician.

Who pays for the rapidly rising malpractice insurance in a doctor's office? It comes out of that $385 (by the way, what kind of specialist are you seeing for $385 level 3 office calls?!).

Finally, if we're paying for the knowledge physicians have and practice, compare it to knowledge about wax and all purpose cleaner. Big difference

[Pete-FWA]

Originally posted by theamcguy
On top of that the medicine he prescribes does not help so he has to do a retest and rediagnose (commonly called a comeback in the auto repair industry which usuall is done for free) and he charges another $385 plus no mention of the wasted $50 on medicine that did not help.

The human body is far more complex than any vehicle could hope to be. Coupled with the importance of caring for a human life, it puts this argument in a whole different league. Patients get a medicine and are asked to return for evaluation because everyone reacts differently. If we were all the same, we'd all be able to take one medicine and be cured.

The "comeback" you cite here isn't generally because the physician erred, it's because the combination of medication and the patient's condition didn't match. A repair is a repair: replace or rebuild the broken parts and the job is done. Make a wrong diagnosis under the hood and you have to eat crow and tell a customer why they now have to spend MORE money on a vehicle you supposedly fixed once.

[Pete-FWA]

Originally posted by theamcguy
You tell me the difference between an doctor and a mechanic? One gets paid big bucks for diagnosing and fixing people the other makes a living diagnosing and fixing cars. The difference is certification.

Does this mean you're most concerned about the money you pay the physician? Would that mean you are most concerned about the money you'd take in on a tow, a detail, or a repair? Are we not concerned about our LIFE when we see a physician?

The whole reason I feel so strongly about this is that people assume those making high incomes are living on easy street. Next time someone is gravely ill, just ask for a tech or maybe a medical receptionist to care for that person. It would be cheaper, but the results will most likely be catastrophic. Sure, you see a physician in a room for 20 minutes, but a group of people make that visit possible. Their work coupled with extensive schooling and huge risk, both personal and financial, factor into why we pay more at the doctor than we do at the repair shop.

It's not about certification, it's about the value that our society puts on the goods or service we're buying.

[theamcguy]

Originally posted by Pete-FWA
Does this mean you're most concerned about the money you pay the physician? Would that mean you are most concerned about the money you'd take in on a tow, a detail, or a repair? Are we not concerned about our LIFE when we see a physician?

The whole reason I feel so strongly about this is that people assume those making high incomes are living on easy street. Next time someone is gravely ill, just ask for a tech or maybe a medical receptionist to care for that person. It would be cheaper, but the results will most likely be catastrophic. Sure, you see a physician in a room for 20 minutes, but a group of people make that visit possible. Their work coupled with extensive schooling and huge risk, both personal and financial, factor into why we pay more at the doctor than we do at the repair shop.

It's not about certification, it's about the value that our society puts on the goods or service we're buying.

And society does not put a premium on our services because we are not certified. Certified services always cost more than non-certified. Example welder. Lots of guys know how to weld and are good at it but only a certain segment are certified welders or pipe welders. They command a premium over just a regular welder. Try building a nuclear plant, ship, submarine etc without a certified welder. Not going to happen. Electricians. Lot of guys can do wiring. Even the elelctricians helper can do the wiring but only the licensed electrician can sign off on it. I wired my own garage but had to call a licensed electrician in to sign off on it so I could get it inspected. Certification commands a premium. Our industry at all levels will not be looked in positive light until we prove to the public our knowledge. The is done by certification whether, doctor, lawyer, nurse, welder, emt, electrician, plumber they all get certified prior to demonstrating their knowledge on the public. We in the auto repair industry should do the same to prove to the public our competence just like other industry's have done. It should not be lets not do it because it has not been done up till now and it seems to be working. It should not be how much is this going to cost rather how much more will I make because of it.

[buda]

In my final commentary on Certification let me say that it is not what the detailer thinks of Certification, it is what the customer thinks. And do not kid yourself, the customer sees certificates on the wall and it means something to them.

Of course, if you are mobile you will have difficulty displaying these somewhere. Maybe put a note about certification in your Yellow Page ad and on your business card, and even on your voice mail.

If you "got it" then, as Broadway Joe Namath used to say "flaunt it." If some of you youngsters don't know who Joe Namath is check him out on google.

If you promote the fact you have certification it will get you business. It is kind of like the lighthouse. You hear only about the ships that the lighthouse did not save, but you certainly don't hear about all the ships it saved.

ANSWERS TO THE TEST QUESTIONS:

LEATHERS

Analine
Nu Buck
Protected
Suede

Question: Which one is used in automobiles? What are it's properties and why is this important for the detailer to know?

PAINT SYSTEMS

Factory Assembly Line - 2K - Thermal Curing Paint System
Factory After Assembly Line - 2K Acid Catylized Thermal Curing Paint System
Aftermarket Paint System

Question? What is the difference and why is it important for the detailer to know?

ENGINE DEGREASER vs CARPET SHAMPOO

An engine degreaser contains caustics, namely sodium hydroxide which literally burns the dirt off engines. Of course, these same caustics will stain aluminum head covers so be careful. They have a pH of about 12 on a scale of 14. They are hot, hot, hot and can be corrosive if used on the wrong thing. Diluting an engine degreaser does not reduce the pH appreciably so it is still an engine degreaser.

A carpet shampoo also an alkaline chemical has only a pH of 8 to 9 (7 being neutral) and it contains brighteners and softeners for obvious reasons. A completely different chemical than an engine degreaser. Yet a huge number of detailers in the USA use engine degreaser to clean carpets and many other things and do not know what they don't know.

Doing that is like washing your hair with Joy or Tide liquid laundry detergent, of course they will work, but at what price to your hair and body?

Will answer the other question in another email.

Bud Abraham

[buda]

A final answer to the question:

WHICH ALCOHOLS STAIN WHICH PLASTICS?

Unfortunately no one knows, not even the manufacturers. They only know that some alcohols stain some plastics used on panel covers.

A detailer should know this in order to not stain these plastic panel covers.

There is so much that I know detailers do not know that it is frightening.

That is what an effort at certification is all about, some way to insure that a detailer has some knowledge in their brain before they try and get their hands to do some work.

OK, I got it. Let us eliminate the "C" word and let us say that detailers should have a "diploma" verifying that they have taken courses in and are knowledgeable about:

a. Today and yesterday's Paint Systems - factory and aftermarket.

b. Knowledgeable in the chemistry and make up of the chemicals they use.

c. Knowledgeable in the various kinds of leather and how to clean and care for that leather.

d. Knowledgeable on the different types of custom wheels, clear-coated and polished only and how to clean and care for them.

e. Knowledgeable in the makeup and care of vinyl

f. Knowledgeable in how to recognize and remove stains from fabric upholstery and carpets.

g. Knowledgeable in the soils that are present in carpets and how to remove them properly.

I know few detailers that are knowledgeable in even 50% of these things.

What say you, no certification just a diploma from somone or some company that verifies that you have obtained the knowledge.

It is certainly better than no knowledge at all, right?

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

[Scottwax]

Honestly, I'd probably be more interested if in the past nearly 12 years detailing full time even one single person inquired about any training or certification I've had.

The marketplace will ultimately determine if certification is needed. If consumers demand certified detailers the way they except ASE certified mechanics, then more detailers would be open to the cost and time required to be certified.

[Mike Phillips]

That's a good point Scott, in all my years of detailing I've never had a customer ask me if I had any certifications or credentials in any form. Almost all my work comes from word-of-mouth referrals, people either like your work and tell their friends, or they don't like your work and tell their friends.

[mirrorfinishman]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
That's a good point Scott, in all my years of detailing I've never had a customer ask me if I had any certifications or credentials in any form. Almost all my work comes from word-of-mouth referrals, people either like your work and tell their friends, or they don't like your work and tell their friends.

Since I have never actually asked any doctors, lawyers or other professional people about their certifications or credentials, I'm not sure that I can agree with this thinking.

Of course, I am certainly impressed and it does mean something to me whenever I see certificates on the wall at the offices of these professionals. And I totally agree that promoting the fact that you have certification will get you more business. However, I have never really asked any professional about either their certifications or credentials, so I don't see where this type of thinking makes any sense.

For example;

My own detailing company has won the Courier-Post newspaper Reader's Choice Award eight out of ten years. Voted one of the best in the category for Automobile Detailing. Of course, I have always promoted this fact in newsletters, flyers and on my website. And it has certainly help me to get more business. Plenty of new customers. Now if I had not promoted this fact and just waited around for people to ask me if my company had ever won any reader choice awards; I'd still be sitting around waiting for people to ask.

The point is simply that just because someone hasn't asked about your credentials it doesn't mean that you can't use your certifications, credentials and other awards to further promote your business.

Certification has everything to do with how the customer views your buisness. It can clearly help to position your detailing business way above your competition. Let's face it; the more certifications, credentials and other awards you can show a current or prospective customer, the better.