What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

[Surf 1244]

On a part time basis I have 5-6 cars lined up for a full detail. For Pittsburgh area what should I charge for following: 1) wash-exterior,wheels, and wheel wells(includes dressing) 2) claying 3) cleaner 4) polish 5) wax 6) interior-vacuum,dressing,windows 7) interior-leather cleaning and conditioner, 8) rubber trim dressing-trunk,doors,hood . How much extra for engine degreaser and dressing(best product for rubber dressing?) Also, should I go ahead and get a dual action buffer or get a rotary buffer instead first(I have someone who will train me on a rotary)-would I get more value and benefit from DA first for cleaner, polishing, and wax for cars in decent shape? Thanks for input. These are co-workers of my girl friend-I want to be fair, but not too cheap because I do a very good job!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

If you're just starting out go for the DA Polisher as the Rotary Buffer will tend to increase the number of steps you must do and for most paint systems it's going to leave swirls or holograms in the paint that most people use a DA Polisher to remove.

So start with the DA Polisher and then add the rotary later on.

Here's something to consider also from this thread...

From page 10

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23614&page=10

First this post by Junebug,

Hey, I'm not really active over here on MOL but I do like to check in and see the cool stuff. On other Detailing Forums there doesn't seem to be as much appreciation for the shops that do fast/production-line like details, but I beg to differ. I detail on the side and after 2 years of trying and buying the pricey flavor of the month boutique brands and working my middle-aged butt off for 10 bucks (or less) a hour - I had one of those "My Name is Earl" moments.

I realized that 90% of my customers just want a clean shiny car - that I can get with either 21 or 26 or if they want, 21 topped with 26. Also, what's the point of doing multiple step paint correction on a 10 year old Toyota with 150K miles that the guy takes to the coin wash every 6 months.

This 151 sounds like exactly what I've been needing for a long time. I'll still have my high dollar stuff for the few customers that really care and APPRECIATE my work, sure could stand a few more of them.

Ya'll hurry up and stock those shelves, May only has a few days left.

Then my reply,

You nailed it. Too many people don't understand that the average person just wants a shiny car, not a show car, at least they don't want to pay for show car results and they're not going to do the work it takes to maintain a show car finish.

Evaluate the customer first, then the paint. Don't sell show car detailing work to a person using their car as a daily driver. Understanding this is key to making your customer happy as well as you, not too mention it will keep you from burning out.

Point being is to be careful you match your services to what your customer's actually want. Sounds like most of your customers have daily drivers and you goal should NOT be to create show car finishes by using a rotary buffer to remove each and every single swirl but to simply clean the paint and make it shiny and you can do this best without instilling any swirls by using a good cleaner/wax with a DA polisher.

[Surf 1244]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

Mike, after wash and claying, should I use a cleaner/polish combo than wax like NXT or keep everything separate-clay,cleaner,polish and wax. Also, do I use the DA polisher for all steps both applying and removing products or are there steps I should do by hand. Also, what is a resonable charge? Thanks for your input!

[RaskyR1]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

M80 is a great polish to start with since it is rich in polishing oils. Becasue of this you can go right to your LSP and skip the #7 or similar. You may also want to consider M66 or the new D151 when it comes out. Like Mike stated, it all depends on what the customer is looking for.


Rasky

[Surf 1244]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

What is LSP?

[RaskyR1]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

What is LSP?

Last Step Product....(wax/sealant)

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

Mike, after wash and claying, should I use a cleaner/polish combo than wax like NXT or keep everything separate-clay,cleaner,polish and wax.

In order to minimize your time investment and maximize your profit potential if you're doing daily drivers and you're doing interior and exterior for one charge then you want to reduce the paint polishing steps the the minimum because more steps means more time and unless you're charging enough more time means less profit.

So for daily drivers, don't promise a swirl free show car finish, promote claying and waxing for clean and shiny paint. Most people don't pay as much attention to swirls like we do here on this forum, they just want clean shiny paint, so you can achieve this and be doing professional quality work by simply claying and applying a cleaner/wax.

So,

Wash
Clay
Wax
Done

D151 is going to become available in the next week or two, it's being made but you have to remember it will take some time to ship to our different distributors and be available for shipping via online orders, (that is actually sitting on a shelf in a warehouse)

So you might want to keep an eye on this forum for an announcement on where and when you can order some of this new product and use this for your daily driver work.

Another option would be to do two-step process where like Rasky suggested use M80 plus a wax or use D151 and top with a different wax like M21

Again you want to make sure you under promise and over deliver but you can't invest too much time into the paint side of the detail and still make a good profit.

As for how much to charge?

In my life I've mostly done exterior paint polishing only on special interest cars and this means educating the customer in order to charge a higher price, usually $300.00 to $6.00.00 for just paint polishing.

For daily drivers where you're doing the interior, dressing tires, washing, claying and waxing paint, you want to charge as much as the market will bare...

My guess would be to aim for $200.00 for a "Complete" detail including,

Wash
Clay
Wax
Clean interior - vacuum
Dress vinyl and leather
Clean glass
Dress tires

If you want to start getting more detailed, as in cleaning carpets and other fabrics/upholstery, detailing engine compartments then you're going to want to either work faster or charge more money.

My personal thought on this is $300.00 for a good complete detail that takes you most if not all day is a good starting point, it might be hard to get though because your competition in most cases is going to charge less.

Call around and ask what your local shops are charging and what it includes.

If you can get work doing special interest cars, high-end, sports, exotics, luxury cars, etc. then try to charge more.

In most cases, the more you want to charge the more work you 'll have to do educating your customer to see the value in hiring you instead of a lower priced competitor.

Does that help?

Maybe some of our other full time and part time detailers can chime in with what they're charging and what they offer for the price they're charging.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

What is LSP?

Last Step Product....(wax/sealant)

LSP means the Last Step Product.

People have changed the meaning of the letter "P" to mean either a wax or a paint sealant and usually this is the case but here's an example of when it's not.

If you're working on a fresh paint job and you're not going to apply a wax or paint sealant then your LSP might be M07 Show Car Glaze or M80 Speed Glaze.

Basically it's the last product you apply and then wipe off before giving the car back to the customer or if it's your car standing back and saying "It is finished" and then admiring the results.

If you're doing production work or working on a Motorhome the your LSP might be a one-step cleaner/wax.

As far as I can remember the first online use of the term LSP was in the Lab Sample D thread on Autopia dated 10-25-03, 06:24 on page 6.


Time flies when you're having fun!

[Surf 1244]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

Mike-thanks for your quick response. I am doing a 96 Jaguar-what paint cleaner and polish would you recommend-it was repainted in the past 2 years-not sure when. I plan on using the NXT wax and I have #7 polisher. Also, I am going to order a DA polisher-should I get the new G110. Do I use the DA for all steps of adding and removing product(cleaner,polish,wax) or are there steps I should do by hand. Thank you for your input!

[RaskyR1]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

LSP means the Last Step Product.

People have changed the meaning of the letter "P" to mean either a wax or a paint sealant and usually this is the case but here's an example of when it's not.

If you're working on a fresh paint job and you're not going to apply a wax or paint sealant then your LSP might be M07 Show Car Glaze or M80 Speed Glaze.

Basically it's the last product you apply and then wipe off before giving the car back to the customer or if it's your car standing back and saying "It is finished" and then admiring the results.

If you're doing production work or working on a Motorhome the your LSP might be a one-step cleaner/wax.

As far as I can remember the first online use of the term LSP was in the Lab Sample D thread on Autopia dated 10-25-03, 06:24 on page 6.


Time flies when you're having fun!

Good point.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

I am doing a 96 Jaguar-what paint cleaner and polish would you recommend-it was repainted in the past 2 years-not sure when.

Meguiar's always recommends evaluating the surface in order to choose the right product.

3 Steps to a show car finish (We teach this in all our Saturday classes)

1. Evaluate the condition of the paint
2. Choose the right product
3. Use good technique

So until you can look at the paint in good light after it's been washed and felt the paint with your clean hand you won't know what it needs.

As a general rule, most daily drivers will need to be clayed and unless the paint is perfect then a good cleaning with a cleaner/polish or a cleaner/wax will at least be a step in the right direction.

Have you seen the condition of the paint in good light yet? M80 Speed Glaze has a good track record of tackling most paint systems using a DA Polisher so that's an option.

I plan on using the NXT wax and I have #7 polisher.

M07 is a non-abrasive pure polish, it has no defect removing abilities, if the paint is in perfect condition than it would be a good option for a polish.

Also, I am going to order a DA polisher-should I get the new G110.

Just answered another post with a similar question.

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24313

Our new G110 offers a lot more power as far as keeping the pad rotating under pressure and after your pads become wet with product, this equates to faster and more efficient defect removal.

Do I use the DA for all steps of adding and removing product(cleaner,polish,wax) or are there steps I should do by hand.

Typically you use a machine to apply product and wipe all products off by hand unless you want to remove the wax or paint sealant by machine, then you could use a G110 with a clean, dry, stiff foam pad like our W-7006 Cutting pad with a microfiber bonnet over it.

[Surf 1244]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

Mike , I am a little confused on the use of the non-abrasive #7 polish. According to the 5 steps I would wash, clay, paint cleaner( degree of abrasiveness varies depending on paint condition) polish-use #7 and then NXT wax. If I use M-80 as my cleaner, don't I follow up with #7 polish or do I use something else for the polishing phase? After using a more abrasive cleaner like M-80, I thought you should use a non-abrasive polish like #7 or do I skip this polish step or use some other lightly abrasive cleaner/polish like Fine-cut?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

If I use M-80 as my cleaner, don't I follow up with #7 polish or do I use something else for the polishing phase?

M80 contains a lot of polishing oils like the #7 and it's a "Cleaner/Polish" so if you use M80 to remove defects you can skip the extra step of using a pure polish like #7

You can apply a pure polish after M80 but the idea was to reduce the amount of steps to reduce the amount of time while still producing excellent results and if you're using M80 it has enough polishing oils that you're going to get the same look as though you used the #7

Another reason M80 is very popular.

If you haven't already, be sure to read through the below thread. Key in on Step 3 Polishing as this goes over pure polishes and cleaner/polishes.

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle
(Posted in the The Information Station) <-- Lot's of good information in this sub-forum

[TH0001]

Re: What should I charge and RotaryBuffer or Dual Action first?

Keep in mind that "production" work is much better suited for 99 percent of the clients out their.

We kind of swing the other way and really perfect paint and work with a higher level cliental level. To truely get paint perfect requires huge amounts of time (15-30 hours +). This means that we charge between 1200-2500+ for correction work. This may seem like a lot of money, but I could probably move more volume and make more money focusing on lesser work.