Calling Mike Phillips..............

[mwc951]

There are several "pro" detailers over on the Porsche board who just don't get it.
Can you PLEASE post over there and shed some light??!!??

Thanks!

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=317969

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

We don't think posting over there will change any minds as it reads like everyone's mind is already made up. They can come over here and read the below if they wish...


Well after reading through the thread, it appears there's just some confusion about silicones. It's really nothing 90% of the car owning population needs to worry about at all. Anyone that works in a body shop understands that you have to properly prepare the surface before painting, that means removing anything that could interfere with surface adhesion and this includes silicone and wax.

Now after the paint has been applied, then it doesn't matter because the paint has been applied. (I know that sounds kind of simple-simon, but sometimes that's how you have to explain it). Ingredients that cause surface adhesion problems are only a factor just prior to spraying the paint.

If you wax your car and the wax or paint protectant you're using contains silicone, wax or polymers, and then you wreck your car, it doesn't matter if you've used a wax with these ingredients in it or not because the people at the body shop are going to properly prepare the panel before repainting.

Just to note, besides silicone, any ingredient that causes surface tension is considered a contaminant in a fresh paint environment and must be removed before painting, for example any waxy type substance will cause surface tension which will result in a fish eye in the paint and must be removed before a car is painted.


Some polymers cause surface tension, as do some oils. To make a broad statement that silicone is bad is very disingenuous because there are many other ingredients used in paint protection formulas that must be removed before painting a car.

The fact is, unless you're re-painting your car, silicone is a non-issue
If you are re-painting your car, or more specifically if you're having your car re-painted at a body shop, as long as it's a reputable body shop, their employees will have enough training and experience to understand that before spraying fresh paint onto the car, the panels must be cleaned and prepped.


Just to note, Meguiar's entered the automotive polish business in the early 1900's, like in 1913, or 1914, etc., the point being, when Meguiar's entered into the automotive polishing business it was to manufacture products for the Professional side of the industry, not the Consumer side of the industry. Because people were still transitioning from the Horse to the Horseless Carriage, there wasn't a huge Consumer wax market because there were not a lot of cars in the hands of the public as of yet. The Model T was introduced in 1908 and sold all the way up to 1927. So it took a while before a Consumer wax market was created.


In simple terms, this means we made products for the people applying fresh paint to cars. This would be cars being built on assembly lines, and as more people bought Model T's and wrecked them, this would be products for the people working in the new industry being birthed called the body shop, or the collision repair industry. (People that apply fresh paint after fixing the wrecked parts of the car).

All of the products we manufactured from the early 1900's until 1950 were silicone-free, as well as wax-free for use in fresh paint environments.

Our history, our expertise is in manufacturing silicone-free products for the people the person in the linked thread above is so concerned about. Seems like some of the people that make the biggest deal about silicone in products don't have a clue that Meguiar's has been manufacture more silicone-free products as long, and in most cases longer than anyone else.

It wasn't until approximately 1951 when Meguiar's introduced M16 Professional Paste Wax did we bring to market any automotive product that couldn't be used in a body shop/fresh paint environment because it is/was a wax and wax creates surface tension which will cause a fish eyes in the paint.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

You know, for all the negative silicone talk you've shared taking place on the Rennlist Discussion Forums, if we step outside this topic and look at what most people would agree is the Pinnacle of car shows, the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance.



Here's some quick stats for just the last three years, it's almost embarrassing to post this,


Meguiar's Shines At 2004 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance

Once again, almost all of the cars (21 out of 24) that won "Best of Class" honors at the world-famous Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance, as well as the car that won Pebble's coveted "Best of Show" trophy, achieved their flawless appearances using Meguiar's products.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

Meguiar's finishes first at 2005 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance

Year after year, the majority of cars that are awarded "Best of Class" distinction at the world-famous Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance have been using Meguiar’s products to achieve their flawless appearances. An independent survey focusing on preferred car care products has been conducted for more than a dozen years at this annual event, and Meguiar’s dominance was once again evident. With 24 of the 27 “Best of Class” winners choosing Meguiar’s products to enhance and protect their fine finishes, Meguiar’s reign continued in the Winner’s Circle.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

Pebble Beach Weekend is Here!

22 out of 25 Best of Class recipients used Meguiar's products on their winning cars in addition to the Best of Show winner who also used Meguiar's products on their car!


The most important thing is to find a product line that you enjoy using and that produces results that make you happy.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

Weird.

We tried posting all of the above posts as one post and the software kept hacking out code and text leaving half of what we typed up. the only way we were able to post everything we typed up was to break it up and post it in chunks and we still had to struggle to make all the words appear.

Weird.

[STG]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

Why am I not suprised that Porsche owners are misinformed?

I was fortunate enough to get a V.I.P. tour of the Porsche factory and museum in Stuttgart back in 1987 conducted by the head of public relations (I was finishing up my MBA).

Walking through the museum, the P. R. Director asked what model Porsche I owned. I guess she was impressed with my Porsche knowledge and since I was living in Southern California (home to 50% of all registered Porsches), presumed I drove one. I replied that I didn't own one.

She asked why, and I told her frankly that I didn't care to be associated with most Porsche owners (in my opinion, members of the more money than brains club - example: 75% of the original 930 Turbos sold by Hermosa Beach dealer Vasek Polak came back with rear end damage after flying off mountain roads). She smiled and nodded.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

I've seen this information regarding winners at Pebble Beach before and all I can say is - If it's good enough for all those $3,000,000 one-of-a-kind Duesenburgs, Talbot Lagos or pre-war Mercedes Benzes then it's probably good enough for my Miata or PT Cruiser. I mean, a reference like that isn't just some guy with an expensive car saying "I like this wax, it's shiny". No, I think it's more akin to Tiger Woods making a suggestion about your golf swing. Would you just blow him off while taking the advice of your retired neighbor who happens to play 5 rounds a week but can't shoot below 80?

I didn't think so.

[cornflake_81]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

No, I think it's more akin to Tiger Woods making a suggestion about your golf swing. Would you just blow him off while taking the advice of your retired neighbor who happens to play 5 rounds a week but can't shoot below 80?

That's a really good analogy, Mike.

[mwc951]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

*snip*.......... (in my opinion, members of the more money than brains club -

Kinda like every dumb a## high school kid with a Mustang GT??

Or maybe a redneck with an F150, right?

[gb387]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

Man, thats more than enough information to make your eyes bug out!

There IS a reason Meguiars has been around so long.

[keesue]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

It is noteworthy that Meguiar's has been around for so long, enjoys an enviable market share, is predominate in the industry - the choice of discriminating detail professionals - and the name brand for many consumers. Indeed, the name recongnition alone is a default standard. There are always interesting products being introduced, molecular modeling software producing interesting compounds; however, Meguair's R&D budget as a percentage of revenue reflects the company investment in its products to maintain its dominance. The new product introductions are a result of that investment.

I have used Meguair's products over the years for the consistency of results and I have always enjoyed experimenting with new introductions on my daily driver; however, my mainstay is Meguiar's. In that sense, I am biased.

What speaks volumes is the sheer number of multi-million dollar cars at the Pebble Beach event who trust Meguiar's products. That is serious validation.

[STG]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

Kinda like every dumb a## high school kid with a Mustang GT??

Or maybe a redneck with an F150, right?

Ummm.... Ahhhhh... How about a Mach1 and F250 Powerstroke? (Let's not bring up my Subaru Legacy GT.) Please note: None of my vehicles have rear-end damage!







Seriously. As a group, Porsche owners know less about their cars and how to drive them than anybody else.

[Bence]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

Weird.

We tried posting all of the above posts as one post and the software kept hacking out code and text leaving half of what we typed up. the only way we were able to post everything we typed up was to break it up and post it in chunks and we still had to struggle to make all the words appear.

Weird.

Mike, I experienced the same. When I tried to include accented letters into my posts, the system just cut the text where the letter would have been originally and I was left with a broken message. That is/was true to the PMs as well.

[Scottwax]

Re: Calling Mike Phillips..............

It just goes back to our philosophy of not using silicone-based products. Time and time again, most good body shops and professional detailers, not to mention paint manufacturers, have recommended against using silicone-based products. Unless you're a majority share holder of a silicone manufacturing company, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Wow. Just wow. Obviously he is not aware that Meguiars works with paint manufacturers like PPG when they developed CeramiClear to make sure the paint would be correctable.

I read his comments in the NXT wax thread too. So sadly misinformed. He makes a sarcastic comment that "But what do they know right?....Meguair's, and other mediocre companies that only care about getting your money know your car's paint better than the paint manufacturer." I guess he knows more about Meguiars products and what is in them than Meguiars does, huh?